Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Does it matter who proposes?


I received an Ask a Bougie Chick letter. Really more like a note. It was one paragraph:
Hi Chele, I decided to take the wheel and drive my relationship in the direction I wanted. He wasn't making a move so I bought my own engagement ring and proposed to my man of two years. He said yes! We're getting married in June. Everyone says I did too much but I got what I wanted. What do you think? ~Isabelle in Chicago
Ummm... I really don't know how I feel about that. I really don't. My gut reaction is to wince and say "What?" then my second reaction is to shrug and say, "Do you." Then I re-read the paragraph and bounce right back to "Oh." Had he even brought up marriage? Indicated that he was thinking along those lines?

I feel some kinda way about it. I wouldn't do it. I'm borderline salty you bought your own ring. Though it's not really about the ring. I just wish you'd left him something proactive to do in the process. And I wonder if a guy feels obligated to say yes if you ask. I don't know. I'm not feeling it. But I'm uber-traditional. Happy for you but not feeling it. Can I weigh in again after June? Let me ask the masses...

Ladies and Gents... thoughts, comments, insights? Does it matter who proposes? Answer the poll and leave a comment...

135 comments:

mojitochica said...

*blink* *blink* *blink*

I guess I'm more traditional than I thought because my first thought was "Hayell naw!"  No I would not do this...

Blaque Swan said...

I'm with you Chele. Though, I admire the chutzpah.

OSHH said...

The thing with that is, once you take the lead in the relationship by proposing to a man in this instance, that is likely where you will stay, always having to lead and take the initiative etc.
Not for me but hey to each their own.

Anonymous said...

This is the reason so many men are full of bitchazzness in my opinion. Some women require them to do nothing a man is supposed to do. You can't expect a man to be a man when you are doing it for him.

Lady Ngo said...

Yeah...i'm not about that life at all. I certainly wouldn't call myself "traditional" but proposing to a man is something i don't feel like i could get behind. Sitting him down and having a "where is this relationship going because if its not in the direction of somebody's altar i think i'm gonna have to exit stage left" conversation is one thing, but to actually go out and buy my own ring and propose?!? Can't do it.

Penny said...

I wish them well and  hope they have a happy life.  However, why does my crystal ball see an argument in the future ending with "You are the one who proposed to me, and even brought your own ring" "I wasn't ready" etc. and other such ugly remarks coming out when tempers flare.  Ouch!

CaliGirlED said...

Stole my comment!

blackprofessor said...

OSHH nailed it!

I want to add one thing.  I was raised by a father with brothers so there is one lesson I take to the bank - men do WHAT they want to do WHEN they want to do
it!  If he ain't doing it, he doesn't want to. 

CaliGirlED said...

WOW!!! My 1st reaction, please tell me she didn't! But she did. My 2nd reaction, please tell me she didn't, but since she did, why is she asking, "What do you think?"? Doesn't much matter now, you did it! My 3rd reaction, please tell me she didn't, but she did, and I just don't see it ending good for her. But hey what do I know? I'm sure there are some women out there who will swear before God that it worked for them and they are HAPPY!

Personally for me, if I have to strap on ALL those manly duties, yes I'm traditional, what's left for him to do? And at what point in the relationship do we switch back? Hell I'm wearing the pants, even had them tailored to fit me! Now you want them back? But they're mine, they won't fit you! Now he's walking around in capri-looking pants sticking his chest out!....Ok that's just my warped way of looking at it. LOL!!!

He who findeth a wife....

kiesh said...

If you are happy with your relationship and felt comfortable with proposing to your man, good for you. It's been my experience that if a man doesn't come for you then he's just lukewarm about you and can take it or leave it. I wouldn't be happy in that kind of relationship, but some women are. More power to em.

quinne said...

*___* this is SOOO bad for business...

i started writing alot of stuff but none of it matched the level of confusion i have in my head. Like someone else said what happens at the first issue in the marriage and he throws out the dubious "well i didnt want to marry you to begin with"

all  you can do is hope it works and maybe it will, but its off to a rocky start. (i really hope they do pre-marital counseling and get to the reasoning as to why he didnt propose and why she felt she had to)

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

Ugh, no. This is not a good look. It's one thing to not buy into needing a big fancy ring to start an engagement. It's one thing to even not be traditional and to propose (*gags*). But it is an entirely different thing - and a MIGHTY foolish thing - to purchase your own ring AND propose to a man. #NAWL

I am not here for her actions. Not at all.

tishatweets said...

Not even with somebody else's mouth (would I propose). Sets a precedent in the relationship that I would be loathe to set. So, no. At this point you can really only help it ends better than it began. That's generally not how life works though.

GrownAzzMan said...

I consider myself non-traditional when it comes to male/female relationships. In fact, I'm damn near a feminist. This however, is a bridge too far. I'm not down...

kiesh said...

Something tells me that she was already in that Leading Woman role in this relationship. For her to feel the need to propose and then follow through on it...I just hope she doesn't expect him to change after they get married.

jorgemateo said...

I would definitely feel some kind of way about it. The man has only one chance to express his intentions of going further and she stole that from him. I'm also in the school of thought that she might extend that type of thinking into other avenues of their relationship as well - ultimately becoming the true pant wearer in their union.

CCDreamz said...

I guess it depends on the type of people they are. I'm a very alpha-esque woman. Therefore, I need a man who is strong in himself. Any other type of man doesn't work for me. I once had a dude I had to lead around and it irked my soul!

This dude may not have a really strong persona. If that is the case then she may have needed to take the lead. I wish them the best. Every pot has a lid.

GuessImJay said...

Not evolved enough for this one. Picking out the ring and showing it to your man is one way to get the discussion started.

ClayJones said...

No. No. And then again hell no.
Why don't you just breast feed him, burp him, and put him to bed as well.
I'm all for equality but this goes too far for me.
Once you've done this are you going to make all the decisions and if that's the case, what do you need him for?
My old school is showing but this one right here caused a visceral reaction of NO Ma'am!
If he likes it, I love it but it would not be me.

thinklikeRiley said...

Did ish right here reminds me of your 'Who's the rabbit?" post.
I ain't bout dis life. Naw.
Can ya at least pretend that I'm chasing? Damn.

David Chase said...

I'm curious to know if they had discussed it, if this was something even on the table.
I know Chele hates when I say this but it holds true - Let a man be the man.

JaymeC said...

This right here "I decided to take the wheel and drive my relationship in the direction I wanted" tells me all I need to know about this situation.  I,I, I and me, me, me - Isabella, please spend some time in pre-marital counseling and make sure this is what you both want. Also take a moment and ask yourself why you wanted a ring so badly that you bought it yourself. Is this about a wedding or a marriage. I see a lot of red flags here. Best wishes to you both.

Chele, it's not for me but I've seen it done before. I have to say it doesn't usually work out so well but who knows.

Earthangel172 said...

I'm not proposing to any man nor will I buy my own ring.  Isabelle is doing the most in this situation, even though she got what she wanted in the end.  Now he knows that much isn't required of him because Isabelle will just "handle it."  No ma'am!

Grace said...

I couldn't do it. I'd spend the rest of the marriage wondering if he was really in it or just felt backed into corner.

Angela said...

Yes it matters who proposes and no it won't be me. That said, if you're comfortable with it...

Guest1 said...

*shrugs* I would propose to my man. Especially if we'd talked about it already. Wouldn't go as far as to buy my own ring though.

hairouna said...

People feel really strongly about this don't they? And no matter what we say, you got what you wanted...

Well, I swear I fixed my face to come in here and say that I would propose to a man. Swear 'fore God. But, in the end, I don't think I would. I'm a big believer in "If a man wants to marry you, he will." And in spite of all of feminist aspirations, I must be pragmatic and understand that men (most men) are socialized to be a certain way and to take the lead in certain things. It is one matter to talk with your partner about marriage and the direction of the relationship. As many posters have heard people say before, he'll give you his answer one way or another. It is an entire different matter to go purchase a ring (word?!) and propose to a man. I know that I would not feel secure enough that his affirmative answer was completely his choice rather than the result of me surprising him.**This only holds if y'all weren't talking about marriage prior to the proposal. If he'd said that he was ready but was dragging his feet finding the right time to propose because he wanted to do it during halftime of the SuperBowl while Beyonce waited to officiate the ceremony immediately afterwards...then ain't nobody got time for that. 

GrownAzzMan said...

Did she get what she wanted? Time will tell. Does she want to be engaged? Married? Celebrating a 25th Anniversary. All she is so far is engaged and that could be temporary.

Lady4Real said...

Chele, you know how we do. I was raised good and old school. In my mind a man is a hunter and a woman is the game, it's fine to make sure you're grazing in an open meadow looking all healthy and delicious. Because of my upbringing I am hardwired to believe that when a man wants a woman he will hunt her, court her, dazzle her, build with her and then claim her in marriage. A female who gets down on one knee may never come off of her knees, he didn't want to kneel before her and ask for her hand in marriage but was fine with her kneeling, he'll want her knelt for the rest of life. I ain't proposing to a man ever, I once had a friend that I knew liked me, he acted like he liked me and he told me that he liked me but her never stepped up to ask me to date him so I stepped off, he was hurt but I explained to him, "I'm a lady and I know my worth, if you want my treasure you got to get your Indiana Jones on." 

Miz JJ said...

That picture is cracking me up. Seriously, Chele always finds the best photos.

Honestly, most couples I know discussed getting married and went together to buy the ring, so there was no big proposal, which I find realistic although not very romantic. However, it seems like she sprung the idea on her dude and he is going along with it. If you feel the need to be proactive why not discuss marriage instead of buying a ring and proposing? It's too far for me. I wouldn't do it and my dude would give me serious side-eye if I bought my own ring.
 

sol_dier said...

i have no problem with her proposing, Good for her. 
I wouldn't have bought my ring though, I would probably want the traditional ring swap thing but I see no problem with saying.. Hey, we've been dating, for awhile, You have my heart ... let's get married.
If he says no, fine. End of relationship, I can go start from scratch with someone else (if marriage is the ultimate goal)

The fact that she asked, doesn't mean he suddenly becomes a house husband or he'll start sleeping on the couch. I mean where is the implication?.

Also, If they have an argument and he something as ridiculous as 'well you asked me to marry you, I didnt want to get married'. I'd laugh in his face. He doesn't and didn't have to say yes. There isn't a gun held to his head.

Blogoratti said...

It'd be very awkward and surprising if it did happen to me, but I would be impressed too. 

Earthangel172 said...

 We're on the same page here, just saying it two different ways. ; )

Zee said...

I'm a feminist to the core...burned a bra or two...heck, even graduated from an all woman's school...but I WILL NOT PROPOSE!  There is a fine line of switching roles that I try to steer clear of.  In reading Isabella's statements, it seems that she has a schedule for her life that she wants to maintain...down to the fairytale June wedding date. 
 
I hope that she understands that a marriage is more than 4 hours in a pretty white dress and cake.  Also, that taking the lead in the relationship at the beginning sets the stage for the entire relationship (ex: you have to make the move on the wedding , house, cars, kids, retirement, etc.).  This seems to be setting itself up as a Shakespearean comedic tragedy instead of a fairytale.   Praying that they have serious counseling (Pre and Post wedding) and that he never walks out on her claiming that this was not his idea.
 
Ladies, what happened to walking in the mall and just so happen to walk into a jewelry store, watching say yes to dress while snuggled up on the couch, dropping hints by leaving bridal magazines open, or just being a woman about yours and asking if he sees a future including you and legality??????

Laughter is medicine said...

I was just  having this conversation with a co-worker of mine....how about if she buys the ring and he proposes with it 18 months later.....no?

OSHH said...

Pretty much, you can't expect what you didn't require.

EvolvingElle said...

Chele, you hit the nail on the head. The Southern, traditionalist in me sees nothing romantic or right about a woman proposing to a man.  And Isabelle left out a LOT in this "letter".  How long have they been a couple?  Are they in love?  Have they discussed marriage (to each other)?  Do they have the same life goals?  What was his hesitation in popping the question?  Does he even really want to be married? 

In short, I am not a fan...

SingLikeSassy said...

Nope. Not me. 

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

 Just to clarify GAM, if you think women shouldn't be shat upon simply for being women, or paid less simply for being women, or only allowed to pursue certain education levels/professions simply for being women, or treated with less respect simply for being women, etc. - Congratulations! You're a feminist. You may pick up your tee-shirt at register 5.

CaliGirlED said...

"Why don't you just breast feed him, burp him, and put him to bed as well." .....myduswell!

rozb said...

 I am all about "guiding" and coaxing the situation so when he pops the question, he truly pops the question. It just may be a matter of both folks being ready and him being confident you will say yes.

Would I buy my own ring? HAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA!!!!! *wiping tears from the corners of my eyes* Yeah - no, not happening.

CaliGirlED said...

She wanted to be engaged, she got that. She wants to be married, she MAY get that. The 25er though? I don't know if she wants it, but it's not looking in her favor if she does. Personally I think she wants to be married so bad (i.e. have a wedding) that she's foregoing the important ingredients of what a marriage needs. 

CaliGirlED said...

Elle's got questions! LOL

Earthangel172 said...

" She wanted to be engaged, she got that"

THIS!

Hell she said it in her very first sentence (i.e. direction = engaged). I'm willing to bet that she hasn't seriously considered marriage, apart from the wedding.

Lady Ngo said...

Preach!

Mina B. said...

Interesting....

Yesterday when we talked about money and the traditional male role of being the breadwinner, the consensus was that if a man is secure w/himself he'd be fine w/a woman being the primary bread winner...but today, ya'll aint havin sista girl down on one knee. Would it matter if he made more money than she did? So he's still wearing those pants? We're still holding on to that tradition that if a woman wants to marry a man that's cool but nothing is happening until he decides he wants to marry her, buys a ring, and gets on his knee. Which of the gender roles can we tolerate being usurped and which ones can we not? 

That being said I TOTALLY AGREE with everyone :P
He better make that move and surely, SURELY, I will not be purchasing my own ring. NAWL

Jennifer said...

"A female who gets down on one knee may never come off of her knees, he didn't want to kneel before her and ask for her hand in marriage but was fine with her kneeling, he'll want her knelt for the rest of life."

WOW, I'm stealing that... just... wow.

I would not be comfortable proposing, DEFINITELY would not buy my own ring.  If we are already talking about marriage, he should want to know what rings I like.

My question to Isabelle is - why do you need to know what Chele/Bougieland think?  You were confident enough to buy a ring and propose... you need validation after the fact?

EvolvingElle said...

LOL! I do!  This is some crazy mess that I just don't understand. 

PrettyLawBelle said...

I wanted "hayell naw!" to be one of the choices in the survey.  That was my first response, as well, lol.

tiffanyinhouston said...

This does not compute. In fact, my mind gets a 404 error even thinking about proposing to some man, let along BUYING A RING!!!???!!!

My husband's first wife proposed to him actually. That's part of the reason I'm the second (AND FINAL) wife. 

The end.

CaliGirlED said...

For me personally, the roles don't change just because the woman makes more money, or in the case of a layoff, downsize or company closure, the man finds himself unemployed. Yeah his ego made be bruised, but he is still the head of his household. Especially in this day in time working has become essential for the woman to help with, (and in case of the single parent) maintain her household, thereby becoming part of her role. If a husband is present, then she's simply doing her part as a team player. Now whether she's the MVP or just a player with a lot of assists, she's part of the team and her husband is the captain, he leads the team.

That being said, we still agree! LOL

Jason P said...

Lookie, burn your bra, make more than me, keep your maiden name - I'm cool with that. But let me ask for your hand, please. Can I?

CaliGirlED said...

I told a friend, now twice divorced, let the next woman you get with be one that you choose and not the other way around.

Cassie said...

Wow! No.
I will ask you out. I will seduce you. I'll even pick up the check now and then. But not never will the earth rotates round the sun will I ask a man to marry me. Sheesh.

All Honey said...

Learn from my mistakes. I said "Are you ever going to marry me or what?"
He said "Okay, let's get married"
We did.
Fast forward two years later in the lawyers office. He says "I didn't want to get married in the first place but she pushed the issue"
Me: Womp. Womp.
Lesson effing learned. If a man wants to marry you - he WILL ask and he WILL do it.

C Nelson said...

I so would not buy my own ring; I'll buy yours, and we'll go shopping together so each of us can pick out something we like and can wear every day for years, but you are paying for mine. But if you're doing this relationship thing right, long before either one of you proposes, you've had the talks about where the relationship's headed and what you both want marriage to look like, and you both know it's on the agenda. Paul and I knew we intended to marry each other a full two years before we got around to rings and proposing. At that point, who cares who actually pops the question? I wouldn't have proposed, but that's because I have specific issues that would forever after be a problem if I did -- I need to know you want that outcome much more than I need the certainty of the formal status. Somebody else may well need to know where they stand more than they need the demonstration, though.

As for feeling obligated -- I'd say men no more feel obligated to say yes than women do. Sadly, that doesn't mean nobody feels obligated: the ultra-public, over-the-top "romantic" proposal is often a trap to put the other partner on the spot in a place where they won't want to make a scene, so they'll say yes. As long as you're not pulling that stunt, though ... guys can say no too. (In fact, guys can say no better; they're nowhere near as conditioned to be people-pleasers.)

Mina B. said...

"For me personally, the roles don't change just because the woman makes more money" <-- I guess my argument is, why in this situation the roles don't change but if a woman pops the question then the roles have to change? With the money situation, I get what you are saying- they're a team and both are contributing, he can still be the head, but if she just ASKS the "m" question, how does that in itself automatically change the roles? The question popping is just a one time event. He can still be the head....right?  

Mo said...

In the words of  late  Tupac, "Hate to sound sleazy, but tease me, I don't want it if it's that easy."

CaliGirlED said...

Asked a guy to meet for coffee & convo and feeling a little weird about it. Oh well what the hell! LOL

Lady4Real said...

Proverb 18: 22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD. 

Lady4Real said...

Proverb 18: 22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Lady4Real said...

The head is at the top, it leads, it contains the brain and therefore the power to move the rest of the body. When a man is the head of his household he leads, proposing is the start of leading IMO, therefore he who pops the question has initiated who leads the relationship. Contributing financially is not leading it is being a part of the team. Not trying to sound churchy or preachy but the roles we are use to tend to derive from biblical principles and in the Bible the virtuous woman contributed but that didn't make her the head of the family, it made her an asset to her husband. Thinking along these same lines the Bible has men as the ones to find a wife not woman as the ones to find a husband. 

sol_dier said...

THIS. 

I'm reading responses and trying to see how a man can't say NO if proposed to. I'm trying to see how proposing to a man takes his manhood away, how it means a woman will always be on her knees. (When a man proposes does it mean he is always on his knees)

I'm really struggling with understanding so many of these comments, maybe its cultural. I dunno. But its fascinating, still.

AminataB said...

Wow. While I'm not one to wish bad things onto others. It sounds like this relationship will not end well, he didn't ask her to marry him because he doesn't want to marry her, period. No need to guess, no need to ask HIM. A man that wants to be with you does not need to be poked, prodded and begged. 

The women in my family and my "aunties" have always said

1. A man should love you just a little bit more than you love him.

2. Women naturally give more in relationships than men, especially when we're in love. Therefore, you should always love yourself more than you love him. Once a man believes your world will end without him, your relationship is doomed.

But maybe, she will prove us all wrong?

sol_dier said...

It doesn't. It doesn't at all. But then, I accept that my views are in the minority here

Lady4Real said...

I second this!!!

Only1DivaC said...

Ditto what @Lady4Real said below. I really want to say a whole lot more but I will just leave you with this...remember this day as the day that you have reversed roles in the relationship.
 
You have assumed the role as a man, so now you will become the protector, provider, etc. in the relationship. So don't be surprised (aka "catch the oh shiggity disease") when he isn't engaged in the relationship and doesn't do the things you expect a husband to do because you are now playing dual roles as a wife and husband.

Lady4Real said...

Yet again, without even reading your comment I replied to someone else's comment with Proverb 18:22. I'm just sayin..........

Lady4Real said...

Being raised with a father and having brother's definitely helps to give you perspective on men and gives you some lead way in the game

SouthernWes said...

If she proposed, shouldn't she buy him a ring? Yes, I'm joking.
Not for me but if he said yes, alright then.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

So I'm the ONLYEST one who wants to know how she proposed and if that's shiggity is on YouTube?
I'm sorry, that is borderline bytchmade of that dude. Either propose or leave. Chick is ballsy as hell.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Girl, go get your coffee. Make him ask for the NEXT date.

datdudeincali said...

*sits down in confessional*
The ex-wife proposed to me. I sat there with my mouth open and then she told me she was pregnant.
How ya think all that turned out? Oh, saying ex-wife gave away the ending. Not good.
Sole custody of my daughter and I tell her a man will place as much value on you as you place on yourself.
Set the bar high and make him jump up to reach it. He may bitch about it but if a man wants you, watch him jump.

SBChitownChick said...

Pardon me while I get all up in my feelings for a second...

I feel like the entire playing has shifted and men are no longer expected to do shit but sit around with a dick and a smile saying "come get me" - (I did apologize first)
I'm sick of it. I'm not chasing a man. I don't believe the man is the prize. I'm the damned prize. You want me, come get me. Ask ME out, pick the movie, pay the freakin' tab!
Drive the car, steer the boat, get us there. Is that too much to ask?

I guess so cuz I am surely single. Whatevs.
All of this to say hell no, I'm not asking a man to marry me. Ever.
Next question.
*slams door behind her*

OneChele said...

Oh. Welp. Woo and sah. But... I feel you. There are some truisms mixed in with your frustration. 

OneChele said...

I hated when you said it in regards to hogging the remote control. Context, sir. Context. 

The Bunni said...

 I would "Like" this 100 times if I could!

The Bunni said...

I watched this scenario unfold during a karaoke happy hour.  This poor woman was celebrating her 40+ birthday, slurring thru her song, called her man to the stage, bent down on one knee and slurred, slobbered and snotted her way through a proposal.  Her friends were trying to get her off the stage when she went to bend down but she was not having it!  Dude said yes, but I still wonder if he actually married her...

Regina Dennis said...

Co-sign to all of this! Women do give more in relationships, and rarely is there a question about how the woman feels about the guy, where she'd like the relationship to go, is she interested in marrying him.

A proposal is (supposed to be) an initiation of a life-long commitment to love, honor, respect, adore, partner with someone forever. For me, it's important to have that pledge from my guy, the man I'll be joined with forever, who I'll start a family with. If I have to force his hand or be the one to make that commitment to him, then I'll always wonder why he never felt compelled enough to give that to me, knowing already my love for him. Maybe that's just me, but I wouldn't be able to shake that...

M Dot the Rainmaker said...

I do the proposing 'round here. And I'm buying the ring...and Michele is going to help me pick it out.  And I will carry you across the threshold, not vice versa.

Any other questions? :)

PS: It's probably sad that I'm single yet I know who is going to help me pick out the ring. I remain ready.

C Nelson said...

 It is fascinating. As much as we try to tell our girls to be confident and clear about what they want, there's a lot of pushback, a lot of "that's a step too far" and "we didn't mean THAT" when deciding what they want and expressing it clearly involves actually telling a man . That holds true for relationships and business both; people are less likely to want to work with a woman who negotiates things like salaries, viewing her as less nice and too aggressive, but if she *doesn't* negotiate salary, she's extremely likely to be underpaid.

A man is less likely to want to marry a woman who asks him, judging from the responses here, but if she *doesn't* ask, well, then, some men will happily let things drag on indefinitely. Clearly, some people's idea of a woman's role in life is still sitting back and hoping the men in her life will be generous enough to give her what she needs, when she needs it, without her asking. Me, I'm over here thinking that if your biggest problem in your relationship is that your girlfriend wanted you to be her husband and dared to ask you, you'll probably be all right. At least you know going in that this is one woman who won't sit back and wait for you to read her mind. All you have to do is have the honesty and courage to say "no" when you need to, and keep going.

chriscogmta said...

Heck yeah it matters who does the proposing!!! It just doesn't feel right.  It's just icky.  I'm having a hard time articulating why it isn't kosher but it isn't.  I know we equal, but some things are just a man's job.

chriscogmta said...

I can't fool with that first piece of advice!  but I approve the rest of the message.

Annette Kendall said...

Sis - before I met John I felt the EXACT same way. Don't apologize for speaking your truth.

Earthangel172 said...

 I'm howling (not hollering) over here!! LOL!!

blackprofessor said...

 You wrong for asking if it is on Youtube, lol!

BklynBajan said...

<>

That's not what we are saying. If your goal is marriage and you've had the discussion and there is no movement then you need to be sure of yourself and your value to walk away. You (women) need to make sure that your actions match your words. Sitting passively hopeing something will happen is NOT it. Neither is playing house or "wifey" with someone that isn't making active moves to push the relationship forward. If a man is scared of losing you he may be nervous but he knows he will either get off the pot or isht.....and he doesn't care if he's known you for 4 years or 4 months. Know your worth!

 What is appropriate for a 22 year old straight out of college is surely different than two 35+ year old that have relationship experience and (should) know what they want. Too many people get caught up in timetables and looking at what someone else did instead of truly looking at what they have in their corner.

Either way no I'm not proposing but I'm also not entertaining anyone that is not making moves in HIS life to lock me down while he has the chance. No ring then no "playing house" on my part for you to get comfortable.  We just dating then we just dating but understand if my other applicant is coming stronger you will move down the draft board. Go take that AAA minor league nonsense elsewhere.

BklynBajan said...

I think somewhere in the back of her mind the points that everyone has brought up are slowly chipping away at her decision and in the process of wedding planning the doubts are coming up. I truly hope that she takes the advice for counseling - best case scenario it helps them as a couple lay the foundation for the marriage - worse case she stops the train from rolling down the track.

AminataB said...

 Not surprising that the first piece of advice doesn't sit well with some men, however, the first piece of advice is related to the second. Women naturally give more in relationships than men, especially when they're in love, therefore it's important to have a partner that loves you just a little bit more to even things out. Relationships are never 50/50, there will be moments when one person gives a little more than the other.

Besides, have you ever seen or experienced a relationship where the woman loves/likes theman more than he loves/likes her? If so, how does that usually turn out??

BklynBajan said...

sorry about the top of my response One Chele can you edit and fix please?

BklynBajan said...

If you stay ready you don't have to get ready.

AminataB said...

 Ha! I wondered if she would be the one to carry him across the threshold once they get married.

BklynBajan said...

* now I start to shout  & bang my tambourine *

Stanley Dada said...

Times are changing fast!

LikeLena said...

If I could praise dance around this comment, I surely would. THIS is real the streets these days

CaliGirlED said...

Get it Mo!!!

chriscogmta said...

I know things are not always 50/50 but the love in a marriage should be 100/100. IMHO, marriage is pretty big deal and should not be taken lightly. When one person, no matter the sex, loves the other more, it gives them power. And that power is almost always abused. If a woman doesn't feel like she is being loved equally, she should make it known, give ol buddy a chance to adjust, and he doesn't....BOUNCE! but the love should be as equal as possible.

CaliGirlED said...

The doors of the church have opened and heaven is rejoicing!!! Let the church say, Ahhhhhhhmaaaannnn!

Churchy? Fine by me!...Mina in answer to your question, I'll just point to Lady's answer. No need to be redundant. ;-)

M Dot the Rainmaker said...

I have $5 on her carrying him 

CaliGirlED said...

*falls out laughing* I'm going I'm going! LOL

CaliGirlED said...

O_O

AminataB said...

I made my comment with the assumption that when a person decides to get married, they will marry someone with whom there's a mutual and strong level of respect. Therefore, the changes of "abusing" that love is nil. 

C Nelson said...

 Why should "walk away" become the preferred option before "ask him", though? If you've had the discussion and you both agree marriage is where you're going, and he hasn't asked you ... why would you walk out without going "this is what I want, and if you haven't changed your mind, you need to say yes to me now"? (If you HAVEN'T had the discussion, nobody should be asking anybody till you do.) Now, if he then says no, or doesn't give you a firm yes, then okay, at least you know. But asking doesn't lower your value. I'm impatient for the day when it's just accepted that a woman can use her words, whatever the subject, without the universe falling apart. The whole trend of discussion the last few posts has me putting "What It Feels Like For a Girl" on infinite repeat. "When you open up your mouth to speak, could you be a little weak?" "When you're trying hard to be your best -- could you be a little less?"

sol_dier said...

it just has me thinking... damn!.

I'm still struggling to see how this woman doesn't know her worth because she asked her lover to marry her
I'm wondering how long shes supposed to wait, manipulate him (leave bridal mags open, steer him towards ring stores whilst strolling in the mall) before she bails on the relationship without simply opening her mouth to say... baby.. lets make it official. I want more than this, lets get married.

Kim said...

Let me say that I think this is a matter of personal choice. Having said that, I would not propose to my man. For me, it's important to feel chosen by him and I would never feel that way if I proposed. Also, I want him to be ready - if he's never ready to marry me, maybe that's huge red flag.

blackprofessor said...

C Nelson, I hear what you are saying BUT look at all the evidence in this comments section of how things went awry when the woman proposed! There are at a couple of stories in which folks are saying "Tried that, didn't work out" from both men and women.  Surely, that has to suggest that women proposing might not be the way to go...

Lady London said...

I'm curious to know if they'd dicussed marrying each other beforehand. I feel like a man will propose if he really wants you to be his wife, and if he does not, then that speaks volumes. He technically didn't have to do a thing except say yay or nay and as he's saved himself 3 months salary- he's winning!

Lady London said...

I agree with the previous posts regarding pre-marital counselling. Though I wish the couple well, something tells me that if she's bought her own ring AND Proposed they may not be quite on the same page, and that doesn't bode well for a life long comittment. the wedding day is one day long but the marriage is supposed to be for life, and an equal partnership. Also, what is there left for the gent to do? Please give him back his trousers! Lol

C Nelson said...

 The problem there isn't that the woman proposed, in my opinion. The problem is that she picked the wrong man to propose to.  IE, one who had a problem being honest about how he felt, or one who was insecure and jealous of "his place" in the relationship. When you have that kind of mismatch, even if she didn't do the proposing, you're going to have problems anyhow.  (And, uhh, remind me ... how many marriages where the man proposed wind up in trouble? How come we're not blaming any of those on who proposed to whom?)

Whitney said...

I'm very traditional...did she apply for a charge at the department store?  If so, then he can pay the monthly bill.  Bless her heart, I hope she lets him be a husband.

William Martin said...

Even with my raggedy relationship history, I know that you start as you mean to continue. If this is how she means to continue...
Better him than me.

OneChele said...

Done.

BklynBajan said...

Men and women need to use their words but they also have to let their deeds match them and stop falling for the okey doke. If after the discussions he still hasn't made the move its because he doesn't want to.

Real talk - a lot of times passive Patty's claim that their man agreed that marriage was where they were moving towards yet years later they were still in the same space. Ask him and he'll fumble around with excuses and reasons that makes it obvious he has not interest in marrying HER but he's ok to hang out for now (even live together and have children). Let him meet the woman he wants to wife up and that "laid back let you take charge man" will dump Patti and move mountains to be all that THAT woman wants her husband applicant to be. Meanwhile passive Patty is sitting there pissed and blaming him when she should have let him go years earlier.

Words mean nothing without action so unless the delay was caused by something tangible (ie ring in the shop on layaway, illness, unexpected layoff) then yes if he said he was marriage minded and your reasonable time limit has passed then proposing to him is not the answer its time to go. You can give fair warning or revisit the conversation but again words with no action is just gibberish. This isn't the "oh someday we"ll do this" but "this is where we are headed and by this time this is what we as a couple will do".

There are too many assumptions that all the steps you are speaking of were taken for me to co-sign on her asking him. If she was so confident in them she would not be asking for input after the fact.

I'm all for equal rights for women but there are some things that are men have to do. As independant as I can be sometimes we have to listen to men and hear them. Not one man on this little microcosm of the internet has shared that this is a good idea or a good look. If the men on here are not the kind you want then ignore them. If you want the responsibility of steering the relationship and find a like minded man then godspeed.

invectiva said...

Likewise. I am in no way a traditionalist and I would not likely find a long term partner match in someone who thought he was going to be head of my household, when I've been the head of my own household since I was 14.

I would *totally* ask a man to marry me if I already knew we were in the same place about it. For me, relationships are a dance, and the lead can change depending on the strengths of  those involved. My partners are sometimes better at tango and maybe occasionally I'm better at the cha-cha. It's okay for me (and largely also for those romantically involved with me) if the lead changes sometimes.

(In real terms, this often means I take care of business and SOs make sure I have some fun, because I am not inherently good at fun or making time for it.)

Trey Charles said...

Nobody's said it yet? What part of the game...

Leon X said...

Fireman's carry?

GrownAzzMan said...

"Hell I'm wearing the pants, even had them tailored to fit me! Now you want them back? But they're mine, they won't fit you! Now he's walking around in capri-looking pants sticking his chest out!...."

This is why I need to quit you...LOL

CaliGirlED said...

Passive Patty becomes Pissy Patty? *hollers* (I couldn't resist!)

GrownAzzMan said...

Props

Leon X said...

I had a friend who proposed to her significant other. They were married, then divorced years later. I've also had male friends who proposed to their significant others and got divorced too. So... yeah.

MsJamie14 said...

I'll sum this one up quickly...

Just...no!

*shakes head, walks off in disgust*

sol_dier said...

this is what I understood relationships to be. A joining/ combination of 2 (or more for the poly's out there) where 1 person picks up where the other can't or choses not to.

Roselyn said...

The thought of being legally obligated to share my assets and assume another person's debts makes me shudder so I doubt I'd ever pop the question (or say yes if asked). I don't really see a problem with women proposing though. I mean if two women get married *someone* did the proposing right? I guess it's a big deal if you're invested in traditional hetero-normative gender roles for your relationship. If not then I don't see it being a problem.

I guess I don't see the big deal about turning to someone and saying, "I love you and I've realized that I want to spend the rest of my life with your. Are you interested?" (which honestly is probably how I would ask if that were ever to happen ::knocks on woods three times just to be safe::). It's only a problem if you're tied to how you think a proposal *should* be rather than whatever works for the two people actually in the situation.I guess home girl's situation still troubles me, though, because it doesn't seem like she proposed because she doesn't give a fig about heteronormativity (why buy yourself an engagement ring?) . Dude just wasn't keeping time with clock she set so she decided to do her. If he's developed enough to say no if he doesn't really want to get married AND isn't the kind of guy who's going to have a masculinity crisis about not adhering to socially proscribed notions of what he should do/be in a relationship, then I think it could work out for them. Otherwise I could see this being a festering wound for him that eventually blows up in her face. I would hope that she knew where he stood on things like that before popping the question. I think they'd both be served well by having a conversation (possibly in the context of some pre-marital counseling) about how they both feel about her proposing and what it means for how they understand/feel about each other's place in their relationship moving forward.

Roselyn said...

I wouldn't propose (or get married) but I don't think it's a problem. Don't see the point of the engagement ring since it's supposed to be a gift from the other person to you indicating their interest. Buying it for yourself seems to miss the point of getting an engagement ring which (not just a sign to others that you're engaged).

Roselyn said...

I think a dude telling me anything even close to  "let a man be a man/ he should be head of my household" is in the top 5 list of stuff you can say that will end any kind of attraction I ever had for him. I'd say he could get buddy status instead, but honestly I don't do causal and I doubt I'd deal with him at all. 
I run my life. I'm looking for a (non-legally bound) partner who supports me in my endeavors; is in my corner when I need it; contributes to my growth as a person; and who appreciates that I do the same for them. Plus good cocoa. That's about it. No leading me anywhere required or requested.

Roselyn said...

Yay for speaking up for the poly's! Monagamy isn't the only way to express passionate/intimate commitment to someone(s).

Roselyn said...

All you have to do is have the honesty and courage to say "no" when you need to, and keep going.

This! The only way asking someone a question obligates them to anything is if they don't have the fortitude and integrity to respond honestly. Hopefully before you ask a question as serious as will you marry me (if for you marriage is about an emotional as well as legal/financial commitment) you know where they fall in terms of their ability to be honest about what they're feeling.

Roselyn said...

" (And, uhh, remind me ... how many marriages where the man proposed wind up in trouble? How come we're not blaming any of those on who proposed to whom?)"
Exactly! I agree with everything this comment chooses to be. All of it.

Jubi The Great said...

Ok that's really his fault tho - what grown person makes a big life decision like getting married even tho they didn't want to? That's crazy.

JoycelynC said...

A thousand times no! I will die alone before I ever ask a man to marry me. Can't even compute. I had a linesister do it and blast it on FB, that engagement only last mere months.

keishabrown said...

i was gonna ask the same thing!!

Kopa said...

Ya'all do realize that all this "the man has to lead" bull comes from what men have derived from the Bible? That God himself actually never says women are less equal? You oughta read what Jimmy Carter has to say about it, it's one of the best things I've heard a US president ever say. Obama included.

With 50% of marriages where the man proposed failing, I can't really see why the odds would be worse when the woman proposes... 50/50.


Also, are men really somehow mentally weaker than women in that they can't say no?

Gee Don said...

I would. There is this one thing my first love did for me that I yet to see any other man do in a long time. And I always said the next man who does....I'm marrying him on the spot!

Brittany Geneva said...

I think the MOST a woman should do, and this is borderline, is just bring it up and be like "what are we doing here, where are we doing?" But buying your own ring?! Yikes. And what kind of story is that to tell your kids or post on your wedding website? Lol

Brittany Geneva said...

Wow!

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