Wednesday, July 18, 2012

Men can say no too... really, it's okay


There was a blog with an article (not linking to it cuz I don't want to) where a double-degreed professional black woman shared a recent dating story. She went out to dinner with her ex-boyfriend and after a pleasant meal and chit chat, she asked if he would like to sleep with her. He declined. End of story?

Ur... um no. She was tart. She asked him why not and he said he didn't want to "go there" with her again. She asked him what that had to do with the itch she wanted to scratch that evening. He kinda fled after that. The writer went onto say how irritated she was that he turned her down, in a very "how dare he" way. She also had some yada-blah about how discriminating she was about her sex partners and didn't get the opportunity to swirl the cocoa that often so she was extra tart about dude saying no.

This confused me. First, if you are just looking for scratch-an-itch cocoa why are your standards so high? Let's be real, if girlie is only trying to get down with 7-figure double-degreed brothers with 1000-thread count sheets... her cupboard is going to be bare for a while. Seriously, if she's just looking to get done you don't need Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech will do. (No shade to VT bruhs cuz really in this scenario, Virginia Avenue round-the-way will do)

Next, there seemed to be an expectation from this writer (and in many of the women talking about it) that if a woman asks a man for sex, he is obligated to say yes. There also seemed to be a pervasive attitude that men are passing it out with double coupons anyway so why not give it up when asked?

Isn't that kinda like someone rolling up on a rich guy saying, "You have plenty, let me hold a few thousand?" Beg pardon?

Let's look at it like this. If the genders were reversed in this story and a guy was complaining about his ex not serving up the cocoa just because he wanted some, we would be calling him the worst flavor of objectifying hound dog. 

I understand that the vijayjay is a commodity which some consider a form of legal tender, a bargaining tool, a most coveted prize in some cases. Where as those manly bits tend to be nestled together in the "buy 3, get one free" bin at the discount store. As one comedian stated, "P! is expensive but d! is free." 

But are ladies so deep into their own entitlement that they expect hot bubbling cocoa on demand from whomever they've chosen to delivery it? We would beat a brother down who acted like cocoa was a right and not a privilege. Even if you're in a relationship, there's no cocoa guarantee. As a friend of mine told her husband,"You'll get what I give you and you'll like it or get none." Boom. Imagine if dude in the story had said that to old girl? Whoa.

One of the most telling comments came from a young lady who said, "I've never had to ask. But if I did and he turned me down, I'd just ask someone else." And there it is.

Don't men have just as much right to say "No thank you" as women do? Can't they withhold, lock it down, go celibate without women putting them on blast? Do women just assume that if they are offering, men are saying yes? Fellas, have the tables turned? Are you getting pressure to give up the good-good? Is that what's hot in the streets? Please discuss...

71 comments:

Jubi The Great said...

I totally missed the piece you''re referencing but I saw some of the commentary. That chick is wack.

Sorry ladies, but we can't have it both ways - we can't expect men to wait until we're ready & claim that men should be able to control themselves, while at the same time assuming that they are up for sex whenever WE are up for sex & all have high sex drives. Does it suck when you wanna serve up the cocoa & he says he's not thirsty? Yeah....but you get over it. Find a new cocoa partner or have some "alone time".

thinklikeRiley said...

Imma just say - some of the ladies are out here wildin' - and it ain't pretty.
Your p*ssy ain't platinum and there's one just like it two apartments over.
IJS.

thinklikeRiley said...

I'll let myself out, Chele.

Michele said...

For whatever reason, we've been conditioned to believe that men want it all the time.  So when that turns out not to be the case -- we're stunned.  "Is it me?" "What's is wrong with him?"  Men have every right to turn it down (and should on occasion) but it just doesn't happen that often.

Grace said...

"Let's be real, if girlie is only trying to get down with 7-figure double-degreed brothers with 1000-thread count sheets... her cupboard is going to be bare for a while."
*fall out of chair cackling hysterically*
This entire post cracks me up. Dude said no - next.

CreoleSoul said...

Entitlement is a motha-fo-ya.

tiffanyinhouston said...

All poontang ain't good poontang. Maybe her good good went bad bad. LOL!!

Miz JJ said...

I read that article and I think the article would have been more interesting/less inflammatory, if she had discussed how certain men use certain women as emotional andor cultural wives, rather than discuss how a man who had used her in this way for years, sexted her for weeks, then didn't wanna sleep with her. It just sounded like sour grapes. No man is obligated to sleep with you. What would have been more empowering would be to discuss how not to be used by these types of emotional vampire men.

William Martin said...

I had a weird role reversal thing happen a few weeks ago. A woman asked me out. I declined. She asked again. I declined. She asked everytime she saw me. A friend told me to go get a drink and be done with it. I did. She was just as awful as I thought. After two drinks, I thanked her for her time and stood up to go. She grabbed my arms, "I bought you drinks, aren't you gonna give me some?" I thought - oh shit, is this how women feel all the time cause it was awkward. I was on some struggle trying to figure out how to extricate myself without coming across as an asshole. I did end up saying that I did not like her "in that way" threw some cash down and left

She's been giving me the evil eye in the hallways ever since. Really, ma'am?

Page Bartlett said...

"cocoa was a right and not a privilege"
Amen.

Trey Charles said...

*blinks twice*
Are you asking if women have privilege when it comes to dating and sometimes monetize the punanny?
Is this rhetorical?

bashowell said...

I saw that.  I had no words.  Just...no ma'am.

Josh said...

I didn't catch the blog in question, but she probably just caught dude at a bad time, he might have been on his way to meet someone he was actually interested in and was just stopping by to say Hi to the ex girlfriend on a friendship level.....If she would have caught him at some other moment in time, it would have probably been on.....IJS

Angel Blanca said...

Dang, I missed this. It sounds like this woman was doing the same old set-up that many of us have been subjected to, and then found out what it was like to be on the receiving end of the  rejection.  Seriously, if you have been in a relationship that did not work out, no manner of wining and dining is enough to make you go back to something that, clearly, neither of you wanted (or, given his response, which he did not want).  Apparently, it really is the season of the tapback, only some of us are looking forward not backward.  I have to applaud dude for not giving in to the pressure; makes it easier for all of us in the long-run.

Cassie said...

*falls out next to Grace*

Only1DivaC said...

*drops a fifty in the offering plate*  

YourGirl"C" said...

Oh SH*******T!  This brought me out of Lurkville!

Angela said...

I wish more men would just say no. But oh well. Nobody likes rejection; some just handle it better than others.

CaliGirlED said...

After seeing some comments in my TL and reading the post, I was like this woman is all levels of confused and twisted. And as this discussion of "Entitlement" is heavy and more so focused on the younguns, I think this is the perfect story to expose the entitlement thinking of others as well. Up today, women!

CaliGirlED said...

"Your p*ssy ain't platinum and there's one just like it two apartments over."....Say it again for the cheap seats!!!

CaliGirlED said...

 *next to Cassie*

GrownAzzMan said...

"I understand that the vijayjay is a commodity which some consider a form of legal tender, a bargaining tool, a most coveted prize in some cases. Where as those manly bits tend to be nestled together in the "buy 3, get one free" bin at the discount store. As one comedian stated, "P! is expensive but d! is free." 

Amazing how things change when men start to value our bodies. Women start to lose their minds. The whole dating equation changes. I am surprised she didn't claim he must be into men.

GrownAzzMan said...

*fist bump*

CaliGirlED said...

 Oh my damn!!! What in the...she said... wow...let us pray!

Seriously though, this is kinda what we have to deal with sometimes. And we are also under fear of being forced if this I can't take no for answer ninja flips out.

GrownAzzMan said...

In other news: Water, still wet.

GrownAzzMan said...

Imma need someone to tweet the infamous link. This should be high comedy!

La said...

I laughed through this entire post just like I laughed all through the article. It didn’t sound at all to me like she was just looking to scratch an itch. It sounded like she was interested in sleeping with HIM and he saw through the ploy and shut it down. I think THAT’S what truly made her mad. And that’s what made me laugh.
This is one of those double standards I can’t and won’t abide. Every person of every gender should be able to decide when and how and who with they want to have sex. No exceptions. Am I na├»ve enough to believe it always happens? No. But I’m not entertaining the p*ssy as tool of manipulation, distraction or door prize shenanigans in my own life.

La said...

I...admire her resilience? Lol I honestly can’t think of any circumstances under which I would be so tone deaf and socially awkward that I’d ask out a man 3 times after being turned down, somehow miss the awful time we were having, and then demand sex for a couple well drinks. I just… Wow. LOL

La said...

You gotta leave. LOL

La said...

*actual tears* OMG. LOL

JoycelynC said...

 I too want the link.  I can't believe she waxed poetic about this subject enough to fill a whole blog entry. 

JoycelynC said...

I haven't read the article but I think men and women have the right to make whatever decisions about sex they want.  If they don't want to give, don't look desperate by being offended.  Even if you knew him when, times and people change and there was no reason to believe you all would always be cool like that.  Get some dignity and perhaps pay a visit to a specialty store if you are that caught out there.    

CaliGirlED said...

 ANY circumstance!!! Not nan one!

keishabrown said...

O_O

that's pretty much all i can muster. 
sigh. this is what relations between men and women have come down to? 

keishabrown said...

EXACTLY. 

keishabrown said...

bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
im so sorry to laugh at your story..but i get that the thirst is real (sorry, i know we're banning thirst) but um.. NO MEANS NO!! and then her question when you went to leave??
WHERE DO THEY REALLY DO DAT AT?????? 

keishabrown said...

But I’m not entertaining the p*ssy as tool of manipulation, distraction or door prize shenanigans in my own life.
YASS!!!! *does holy dance*

C Nelson said...

 ... This is where our screwed-up culture does boys and men just as much of a disservice as it does to women. The trope is that a woman is supposed to be the gatekeeper for cocoa and the man is supposed to be instantly ready if not downright aggressive about getting it, so much so that if he actually turns you down, it must be because there's something he finds truly distasteful about you. (Which is not to say that might not have been so in this case -- if he's buying the cultural line, having her ask him is a turnoff because she must be a whore, and if he isn't buying it, well, somebody who whines and pushes after I say no gets none from me either. But I digress.)

Society says men are supposed to measure their masculinity by how much sex they have. It's nonsense. Frankly, I wish more men would say no more often -- as a woman, I've often had cause to say that the two most abundant elements in the world for a female-bodied person are air and hard d___. I need the vast majority of men to figure out that *their* sexuality can be special because of quality instead of just quantity, too. Kudos to this guy for being (at least hopefully) on his way there.

C Nelson said...

 Yes, exactly.

MsJamie14 said...

*killed so softly* Dayum

lessie brown said...

I can't blame a chick for having standards. I have them myself (no Republicans. no exceptions. There are others, but that's my completely non-negotiable one). But since I absolutely reserve the right not to jump in bed with anyone I don't want to, I extend that right to the men I grab drinks/coffee/dinner with. Good grief. We're supposed to be grown-ups. He says no? As others have noted, go on to the next one. We are never obligated to have sex with anyone. People who say otherwise wonder why shit goes bad for them >.<

MsJamie14 said...

Ooh, rejection. Yeah, who likes that? Not me. And yes, when a dude turns you down for cocoa, it's so rare and jarring...you end up reliving that scene in Boomerang between Strange and Marcus "what, you don't like women?!"

But yeah, take the L and keep it moving. Acting like a donkey accomplishes nothing. LOL. I mean, he's certainly not trying to give you some after that...

CaliGirlED said...

 Someone told her persistence pays off, it's ok for women to be aggressive and initiate. She needs to go beat them upside their damn head, then kick herself in the hind parts for buying into it!

SingLikeSassy said...

Maybe the reason he didn't want it is because she offered something he hadn't even indicated he wanted yet. Or at all.

But whatever, if you'd bold enough to put yourself out there you gotta know that some balls won't make the net.

Andrea M said...

A woman is only that mad over the d**k if she wanted what was attached also. She wanted him and thought she could cocoa her way back into a  relationship. She shot, she missed, take a seat on the bench until the next game.

taut_7 said...

a lot of women think that the sun rises and sets and their vagina. i've turned down plenty of women in my day (i still do). sometimes the satisfaction of moments of sex isn't worth the headache that comes with it. a lot of women fail to realize this. there have been times where not even a couple of seconds have passed after the deed had been done and i was already regretting it. 

i always say that no one complains about a double standard until they are on the wrong end of one. *shrug* 

chriscogmta said...

First, let me say I love this post and the comments.  Y'all are truly "special".  Second, this scenario is not common, but not unheard of.  In college, I had a young lady spread rumors that I was gay because I didn't smash.  Really?  It happens to all of us.

PSA - Fellas, don't turn down the nookie, it could be your last. (sarcasm off)

EvolvingElle said...

I read the original post after I read the follow-up.  If I may say, both posts were just absolutely too long.  I started skimming.  Chele's post is EVERYTHING!!!  And your comments are just the laughs I need on this Wednesday!   Like others have said or alluded to, if she's that hard up for, well...something hard, she should have just gone to the Naughty Party store.  Oh, and to William Martin-sounds like you and ol' girl work together.  Workplace romances (or potential of) are always tricky.  Kudos to you for saying yes...I guess... Persistence is cute; desperation isn't.  It seemed like girly was desperate.  A man (or anyone for that matter) has one time to tell me "no".  After that, on to the next one.

AnthonyJ1167 said...

The astute gentleman of a certain age & distinction know that (a) all punanny is not good punanny and that (b) most punanny comes with some form of emotional entanglement. A gentleman must be keenly away of these points, especially if he's 'bringing it' ...**clear throat & whisk shoulder**


The danger in overlooking these points is that you run the risk of heightening someone's attraction for you when all you wanted was a climax...or two...or three. Also, at this point in our lives we know how messy it can be untangling emotional attachments. You want me + I dont want you + we did the do + I put it on ya = a mess. 

Sometimes its best to sip your drink, express your gratitude for the offer, politely decline, and move on.

I tip my hat to that brother.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

"Let's look at it like this. If the genders were reversed in this story
and a guy was complaining about his ex not serving up the cocoa just
because he wanted some, we would be calling him the worst flavor of
objectifying hound dog. "

Exactly. Nothing more needs to be said. Just as women aren't obligated to lie-and-spread on command, men aren't bio-dildos either.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

 Wow. That's some serious thirst right there.

GrownAzzMan said...

"She shot, she missed, take a seat on the bench until the next game."

^^ This!

Sol_dier said...

O_O seriously? Look lady, he don't want your junk. Find someone else, learn to please yourself or find a decent toy store. #thenerve
Can we abolish the following myths please: 1) Men are uncontrollable savage creatures, with absolutely no discernment?2) Women have an irresistible honey pot between their thighs. They are both born of braggadocio, are extremely dangerous and used in all manner of deviant defense scenarios.

Sol_dier said...

I don't even know where to look! lol.

Sol_dier said...

from your lips to Gods ear... THIS

blackprofessor said...

 Exactly!

blackprofessor said...

I read the original article and it sounded like sour grapes to me. She wanted him and cocoa, he declined.  She was supposed to keep it moving not sulk.

I could never serve myself up on a platter for a guy who hasn't intimated that he is at least sitting at the table with silverware.  Humanity would be better served if folks learned how to read between the lines before making assumptions and offers.  

ASmith said...

I'm just here to big up the shout out to my alma mater. #GoDores

GrownAzzMan said...

I tracked down the post and she seems to have a problem with men wanting her for an intellectual and emotional connection without providing her any benefits (cocoa). 

Wait, what?PS. I now think I need to see what this woman looks like. For research purposes and all...LOL

happinessisme said...

Dang. Talk about being desperate. I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman going for hers however if he says no, he says no. On to the next? 

lessie brown said...

For science, eh? Posterity? The good of the generation? Aren't you noble ;P

GrownAzzMan said...

I need to see what these men are so willing to pass on????

lessie brown said...

Having met with a few nice looking men possessed with an "entitled-to-my-body attitude," if she's the female equivalent, it's not hard to imagine :)

lessie brown said...

My scientific curiosity doesn't reach that far, I guess, haha. /end threadjack

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

 I saw on twitter that she took the posting down.  The exchange about why has been chirp-storied (is that even the correct term?)

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

 hahahaha she might could be facially challenged.

However, if a woman is constantly buying platinum express passes to the Friend Zone with men she is interested in, she is also setting herself up for failure.  You can shoot yourself in the foot by being "the cool girl", then giving too much intellectually/emotionally in attempts to exit the FZ posthaste, and then being mad when all your efforts fail.  She needs to get a grip, buy a clue, and figure out what she needs to do in order to have the types of relationships she wants with the type of men with whom she'd like to have them.

tiffanyinhouston said...

 No man ever gets the chance to tell me "NO" twice. Very few have gotten the chance to tell me "NO" once. She's thirstier than the Serengeti and Sahara combined.

rikyrah said...

her feelings were hurt.  but, yes, men have a right to say no too.

OneChele said...

*snickers* See now. #smartgirlsnark

CorettaJG said...

Me too, lol! Vandy in the house!

Oh and I did read recently read one man's story on his decision to become celibate http://cms.ebony.com/wellness-empowerment/second-chance-at-celibacy.  

Since I believe in waiting until marriage and I definitely support a celibacy decision (for religious and/or secular reasons, there are benefits all around that were just reinforced to me by the broken engagement of a couple for whom I was the wedding planner) I have little sympathy for Ms. Ma'am.  

Get a hobby.

JOY2LOVE4LIFE said...

:) That story made me giggle. Its a running joke with my male friends for me to hand them a piece of candy or pen, wait for them to eat it/use it and then be like "Aint I good to you...now you ready to put out right"...they laugh...I laugh...we all know it is ALWAYS a joke.

Sorry she took you there and I agree it is not fun :(  Next time do what we women do... have your home boys be in the area at the time of the date, then if it looks like its going badly, you text them and they come over and get you!! Yall supposed to do it real sly like, walk by and be shocked to see each other...then talk about that thing you been holding for his mom in your car since Christmas that your brother  who is leaving for Iraq needs by Sunday :) That way you get to leave and keep your loot too :) If that doesn't work, I always like to look them in the face and say with a serious look..."um, let me check with my probation officer 1st, I think the judge said I gotta wait till I'm off probation...but I'll call you"

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