Thursday, March 29, 2012

Relationship Growing Pains - Dolla Dolla Bill$ ya'll


Le Dude and I were strolling along through LeChiChi SuperMarket a few days ago. I was picking up a few things for myself and BougieMom and he was pretending like grocery shopping was interesting. I had just tossed tricolor whole grain pasta into the cart when he asked, "Do you even look at the prices of the things you buy?"

Only half paying attention, I shrugged. "I pretty much know what everything costs." On the next aisle over, he asked again. "So do you have an idea of what you're going to spend before you come in the store?"

Now suspecting that it's part of a bigger conversation, I paused in front of the greek yogurt and looked at him. "Always. Plus I keep a running tally in m head as I shop. Are you buying these groceries or am I?"

"Hey, don't go there with it - I'm just trying to figure out your fiscal ideology."

"My fiscal ideology?"

"Yeah. Are you a saver, a spender, do you budget, have long-term financial plans... that kind of thing."

"All of the above. I save, I spend, I always have a budget whether I adhere to it or not, I have both short and long term financial plans."

He nodded and frowned at the same time, "Do you have stocks, bond, a money market-"

I cut him off, "Hold up. What is this?"

"I'm trying to see how financially compatible we are."

"Interesting that was not worrying you when I was buying food by the platterful with which to nourish you and your boys. But anyway, I would think you've been around me enough and are observant enough that you've figured out I tend not play when it comes to money."

"I know but I think you should put yourself on an allowance."

"An allowance? I'm on a budget. I know what percentage of every penny that comes in is going where. Mint.com and Pageonce.com have me set. That seems plenty. Why?"

"Well I'm just looking down the line. You could write full-time and I would give you an allowance to play with."

Blinkety-blinkety-blink. "One, you are looking way further down the line than I'm looking. Two, I'll get back to writing full-time eventually no matter what. Three, an allowance to play with? That's discussion worthy. An allowance between grown folks only works if both parties agree to the amount and if the giver isn't all up in the receiver's grocery cart asking how much they spent on the pasta."

"Realistically if it's my money and-"

"An allowance only works if both parties think of it as community money. Once you start getting into my money and your money, things get ugly. I'm grown. I've been making my own money for over a decade and a half. There is no scenario in which I'm cool with someone, anyone asking me about how I spent the grocery money. None."

"There are some things you are stubborn about for no good reason."

"There are many things I'm determined about for lots of great reasons."

"It's not like I'd be up in your bank account figuring out what you spend on shoes."

"Why would you need access to my bank account?"

"What happened to the community money?"

"Oh, that would be in the community bank account."

"I'm in banking and you wouldn't trust me to handle the money?"

"You could be the Treasury Secretary and I'd still want a separate account."

He had his hands on his hps and looked down at me with confusion. I had my arms crossed and looked up at him with all level of "What?" across my face. "Let's get what we came for and go." He suggested.

"Yes let's."

BougieLand. What's the thinking on community money and allowances? For my married/cohab folks - who holds the purse strings? For everybody, do you have a financial ideology? How important is that your financial philosophy match your s/o's?

168 comments:

CCDreamz said...

You just put me in a bad mood when he said "Allowance" like you're 13 years old.

SouthernWes said...

Dave, Dave!
Stand down, son.
This might coulda worked if Chele was 22 still on the struggle. But ur, um - she been buying her own shoes and groceries for more than a minute.  Your answer, since you are financially able, is to say "Whatever you want dear." and keep it moving.

Mrs. SouthernWes doesn't work any more and I sectioned off a dollar amount (that we mutually agreed on) that direct deposits into her account. I don't even see it. I pay the mortgage, we split the bills and whatever she does with what she gets after that is all her.

I seriously don't even want to know what she spends on what. I fear it would traumatize me henceforth and forever after.

DLC - you may need to break off some Yurman on this one. For reals.

tishatweets said...

I laughed so hard at this part:


"What happened to the community money?"

"Oh, that would be in the community bank account."


LOL!!!!! Ah, love. :)

Anyway, when I was married he had an account, we had an account, and I had an account. I think everyone should have their own account. Don't buy me presents or treat me to stuff out of an account that I put money in, yo. -_-  I digress. I paid the bills out of the "we" account. It worked fine for a time. When it didn't work, there was a problem with him, not the theory. I'm a firm believer in everyone that gets up and goes to work having their own money.

I guess if I had to name my financial ideology it would be "spend some, save some, think ahead." I live by a budget. If I don't have my Excel spreadsheet (old school but so works) when it's time to pay bills I might start breathing funny. LOL. I have a household account from which I pay bills, and then a play money account . Separate debit cards for each. Also have a savings account that I need to do something better with. :-/

Because of what I suffered in my marriage, it is imPERative that my next mate at LEAST match me. He must be fiscally responsible. He doesn't have to be rich, he just needs to be a good steward of whatever he does have.  I actually would like him to be a better money manager than I am. That's...hot. LOL. At this stage in the game I can't be with someone that robs Peter to pay Paul EVERY month, and is checking his account incessantly, waiting for that direct deposit to hit at midnight. Uh-Uh. I have PTSD from that. Can't deal. LOL.

DesertBlack said...

This is going to be good!

Grace said...

Okay, David hasn't made a lot of mistakes (at least that you've shared with us) so I'm going to to overlook the fact that he forgot you were his equal and tried to treat you like a dependent for a second. Let's say he's still not 100% from the illness.

I firmly embrace the yours, mine, ours concept. None other will do. And no, my man doesn't need access to my bank account. On the other hand- I can't be with a guy who doesn't have some sort of grip on his dollars. I don't mind paycheck-to-paycheck but no check to no check? Or check is spent before it hits the bank? I can't go for that. No can do.

tishatweets said...

"Mrs. SouthernWes doesn't work any more and I sectioned off a dollar amount (that we mutually agreed on) that direct deposits into her account. I don't even see it. I pay the mortgage, we split the bills and whatever she does with what she gets after that is all her."

There is "smart," "intelligent" and "happy home" alllllll up in through here! LOL

BklynBajan said...

If he's well enough to go grocery shopping why is mom still there?

Why/what made him think the time to have that conversation was in grocery store in front (or at least in ear shot) of said mama?

In the end what matters is what works for each couple. Some people think budget is a four letter word. Others think life will end if they don't maintain control over their finances no matter how bad they are with it. To me this convo wasn't about money at all. Figure out whatever that is & the rest will be discussed to your mutual benefit.

mickmicki said...

My thoughts on "community" money aren't very positive.    My biggest fear is that I will have to call my husband to negotiate every trivial purchase (magazines, beauty products, and undies) and he will say something fly and loose.  Then I would have to cut him.  Or that he will put me on some sort of allowance and I will be forced to do like my co-worker, lie to him.  Perfect world = His account + My account + Family Expenditure account

I tend to be a little spendy.  It is important that I have a man that is fiscally responsible.  He must make WISE financial decisions,  have a vision for the family, and lead us towards that vision.   Let's be real.  I want someone to offset the foolishness that I like.    He can't be too high-maintenance and should be a little cheap (for himself).   o_O

tishatweets said...

"It is important that I have a man that is fiscally responsible.  He must make WISE financial decisions,  have a vision for the family, and lead us towards that vision." 

Say that. This is where wise women don't mind following.

ClayJones said...

One of the things that dissolved the 19 year marriage between me and the woman formerly known as Mrs. Jones was money. Don't get me wrong  a lot of other things were torn asunder but the woman's lack of respect for a dollar was the last straw. A man needs to feel like more that a personal ATM. But - that's my baggage.

As for you two. David, man. Do you know how close you were to getting cut? Like put curbside AND diced with a paring knife? Trying to get in between a bougie chick and her gourmet food and love of shoes?!

If I should ever marry again - she gotta have her own. I gotta keep mine. We can pool some for the house and all else need not be worried about.

Lady Ngo said...

allowance my entire 25 year old ass! You have your account, I have my account, and we have the "lets keep a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs, and food in our stomach" account! An allowance is only acceptable if 1 person makes 100% of the household income and even then...

Jason P said...

I thought part oft he upside of dating a woman like Chele was so that you knew you weren't the only one bringing in cheddar. If the plan is to set her down at the house while you out ballin' you could get anybody for that. Just saying. 

Andrea M said...

Am I the only one stuck at "Allowance"?
Is it 1950 and no one told me?

Andrea M said...

the woman formally known as Mrs. Jones BWAHAHA!

EvolvingElle said...

*Sipping my hot chocolate with my head tilted to the right*

"Well I'm just looking down the line. You could write full-time and I would give you an allowance to play with."

*Head bolts upright and eyes bulge!!!*

Say what now??? Uh, no sir! Allowance to play with???

Thankfully, I have not had the pleasure of sharing my funds with a s.o., but please believe when the time comes, we'll have community money IN the community account, but I will also have my own side account.  Hey, a girl's got to protect herself! 

Like you, Chele, I have a budget.  Do I follow it all the time?  No, but as I turn 30 in 2 weeks (YIKES!), I have vowed that this is something I will work on, especially saving since I want to get my Master's and buy a home soon. 

And fiscal ideology?  Who puts THOSE two works together??? But hey, I can't be mad at the brother for looking ahead; his approach was just a little off...

M Dot said...

You have to let him make it this time; it doesn't seem like he makes a lot of mistakes.  

IMO it's better for both to have separate mad money accounts, and an account for bills.  Realistically anything above 3-4 months expenses should be in investments anyway (stock, real estate, whatever Magic Johnson is doing next, etc).  If only one person works, what is an appropriate amount of  separate account money per month anyway?

AppleBerryMIA said...

The first "I cannot believe you just said that and I don't even know who you are" fight the Rob and I had after moving in together was about money. Specifically, when he tried to tell me how not to spend it. I was like - we aren't broke, we aren't struggling, we are saving, we're both employed - why are you worrying about me and the Coach Outlet? 

I'm not going to spend into savings. I'm not going to overdraw anything. If I want a new bag and we have the money, I'm buying it. He thought purchases over $100 needed to be "a group decision" and I disagreed. Purchases that impact bills and rent - $500 or more, okay. Maybe one day we'll bump that up to a $1000 and beyond. The next day I re-opened my little account and split that direct deposit. 

tishatweets said...

"...whatever Magic Johnson is doing next," though?! LOL!

GrownAzzMan said...

"You could be the Treasury Secretary and I'd still want a separate account."
I am in banking too and my philosophy is similar to yours. Grown people need to have some control over some of their income, married or not. Three accounts, yours mine and ours is the solution. We take care of the bills, savings, investments etc. from ours. Yours and mine are to be spent at our own will.

This will keep a happy home/relationship cause if I need some new wheels/gadgets/ties etc and someone tries to tell me no like they are my parent it's not going to be pretty.

GrownAzzMan said...

"
I seriously don't even want to know what she spends on what. I fear it would traumatize me henceforth and forever after."

Cosign to the highest level of cosigness.

GrownAzzMan said...

Props for the Hall & Oates reference...

GuessImJay said...

Uh-uh. Not. Touching. It.
I slept in the guest room of my own house for four days when we tried to come up with a household budget. I did not understand that "miscellaneous" means shiggity she gonna buy that I just need to shut up about. #LessonLearned

TrulyPC said...

Been there and done that.  One person holding control over the purse strings does not work!   

Agreed upon fund distribution is the only way to go about it.  To those wondering what to do if only one person is working outside the household-- the same rules should apply.  There is no lording over an adult.  Financial ideology compatibility should have nothing to do with controlling the other person.  He may like pricey gadgets and she might like pricey shoes for reasons neither may understand nor do they need to.  His, Hers and Ours accounts keeps a happy home.  

JoyGrooves said...

 You mean "our own house" doncha babe?

OneChele said...

*snickers*

GrownAzzMan said...

"David, man. Do you know how close you were to getting cut? Like put curbside AND diced with a paring knife? Trying to get in between a bougie chick and her gourmet food and love of shoes?!"
Yeah, I was worried about our brother there for a minute.

Earthangel172 said...

"You could be the Treasury Secretary and I'd still want a separate account."
This!

I believe in joint checking for bills (with each person contributing a percentage of their income), joint savings for collective financial goals (i.e. house downpayment, renovations, vacations, etc.) and seperate accounts for each spouse (fun money, etc.), with each person having online access to all accounts. In an ideal marriage this would work for me and a happy wife = a happy life...LOL

Earthangel172 said...

.....cause if I need some new wheels/gadgets/ties etc and someone tries to tell me no like they are my parent it's not going to be pretty.
LMAO! Yass Lawd!

Jubi The Great said...

1 - David, I gotta call shenanigans on you bringing up the financial question in the middle of grocery shopping. You & Chele have been dating for months, you couldn't find a better time to ask OR glean needed info from your interactions. And honestly, you sound a little caveman-ish with this talk of allowances & whatnot. Would you like it if Chele struck it rich & wanted to put you on an allowance?

2 - I'm all about a his, hers & ours acct. Cause I work hard everyday & I don't want to hear anyone's mouth about how much I spent on a new bag. As long as the household bills are taken care of, our savings accts are funded & you aren't doing anything illegal with your funds, rock on. And I will do the same.

3 - I hear this book is full of really great questions to spark discussions - http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1001-questions-to-ask-before-you-get-married-monica-leahy/1101077122

I'll be over in the corner....

Jubi The Great said...

You might be right abt that Yurman...

Jubi The Great said...

"He doesn't have to be rich, he just needs to be a good steward of whatever he does have." <---this right here.

Michele said...

You have to appreciate Le Dude for broaching the subject.  Don't you?  No?
 
Anyway, this conversation sounds like a conversation that I would have.  That I probably should have had 2 husbands ago.  At my age (knocking on 50's door), working full-time, debt-free and fully capable of managing my money, there is no circumstance where anyone is going to tell me how to spend it, save it or invest it.  If I do get married again I fully intend to have a pre-nup, one joint account for household bills and a separate account for whatever the hell I want.

no comment said...

I had to LOL at the Magic comment but I feel you!

FreeBlackMan said...

Respect to all the ladies out there handling their own but I have run across some trifling will spend you out of house and home sisters. I wouldn't put my name on anything of theirs or have their name next to anything of mine. Let's not act like some people are not just ghetto when it comes to handling money. We all know people driving new cars, blinged out, living in Big Momma's basement.

I agree he probably could've come at this another way and handled it better but the questions did need to be asked. 

Steve said...

So who got next?

thinklikeRiley said...

 This bet not be the same damn cockroachy Steve we done run up outta BougieLand twice now? For real, son?

Jennifer said...

Kudos for talking money early on, Mr. Le Dude, but I think it's that 'allowance' word that got ya tangled up.  My first thought was 'ownership' when I read that word, rather than the 'partnership' that I assume you desire. 

My opinion only: If she has an allowance, then frankly you need one too.   A community account where bills are paid etc, and 2 allowance accounts from which each party can do what they will.  27 Lattes, girls night, cigars with the boys, Coach outlet, golf clubs yada yada.  It's cool if one person is the CFO and handles bills, but the other party must be able to have full access to accounts and info at will. 

My girl is a SAHM and I can't even describe the shenanigans she is in where her husband won't even tell her where their money is r any account passwords.  He says since he is the breadwinner, she doesn't need to know.  So far, she doesn't push back on this much but complains to her girls plenty.  (???!?!?) She has her allowance and he constantly is checking it and her to say where is should be spent.  This is an adult woman, licensed professional with 2 degrees.  C'mon son!  But hey, it ain't my house.....

CCDreamz said...

And if he had been dating a chick like that then I'd have kinda sorta tried to understand him telling her he would give her an allowance to play with. But he is dating a grown woman who is handling her own and then some.

BB Waite said...

I had to go look up SAHM - Stay at home mom. I'm one as well. Mr. Waite and I agreed early on that they only way to do it is separate but equal. It wasn't the checking and savings that caused our squabbles, it was the credit card bills. I don't believe in using a lot of credit, I prefer to pay cash and be done. Mr. Waite likes to credit card everything and then pay it pack in a month or two. Why pay interest on things we could buy outright?

Anyway, we have a dollar and credit amount that we spend within every month. If we have to go above or beyond, it's a discussion. This works for us.

Page Bartlett said...

Who was it that said romance without finance is a nuisance?

keishabrown said...

but.. in the grocery store though? isn't this akin to men hating when women bring up conversation while in a car? 

this is an important convo to have if considering nuptuals down the road - but um..perhaps in a different place and from a different approach. can't be mad about someone getting defensive if you come from an combative stance. 

thinklikeRiley said...

In the grocery store doe? We can't save that discussion for post-cocoa ev'body in a good mood afterglow ish?

In da past, Riley been too broke to worry bout who spending what. I'm a-ight with having a Suga Momma. Shooot - put me on an allowance and watch me cook. I'm. Just. Sayin'.

And but also - Riley money is Riley money. That is all.

NY2VA said...

This conversation right here is why hubby and I have the 70/30 split.  In our arrangement, 70% of each individual's paycheck is directly deposited into out "house account" and 30% is directly deposited into our personal accounts.  We each operate personally from a 30% "allowance" from our own paychecks.  It is fair because although we earn different salaries, we are still contributing an equivalent share to the pot.  When we get raises (I remember raises) the house gets a raise and the individual gets a raise.  It has worked like a charm for almost 13 years now.  He can't get in my business about how much I spent on shoes and I can't get in his business about how much he spent on comics and video games.  

BTW, I'm the CFO so I pay the bills from the house account.

blackprofessor said...

David - don't go messing up now!!  There is a time and place for this conversation but it wasn't the grocery store. 

If we have to fight over money issues, we are incompatible.  My dad raised me to be fiscally responsible so I spend, save and invest.  The fiscal ideology I espouse is three accounts (ours, mine, his) with a budget and investment plan.   It is important to me that a potential SO is on a similar page as I have seen too many marriages tank for monetary reasons. 

Earthangel172 said...

"I'm a firm believer in everyone that gets up and goes to work having their own money."

Now this will preach!! ::drops a hundred in the offering plate::

TrulyPC said...

I think that men and women have word triggers that are heard very differently by the other.  Perceptions need to change when it comes to working outside the household versus inside the household.  Traditionally it has been women having that option and some men mistakenly misconstrue the woman being at home as having a dependent and not a partner.  That mistake can ruin a happy home. #SAHMstayworkin'

Lady4Real said...

Without reading anyone's comments here are my 2 cents. I have been on my own since I was 18, left home at 16, been working since 16, been on a budget since 16 (having a child a week before my 16th b-day made be grown up really fast). I have known how much things cost and where the best deals are since I was 16, with all that being said I have always held the purse in my relationships. My ex-husband never knew how much money we had or where our money was going, I had his check set-up for direct deposit into our account, gave him money when he asked for it and kept a "Mad Money" stash at all times. Current hubby and I didn't mix money until after marriage, he came to the table asking what the bills are in the house, gave me half and once we got married he signed over his checks and accounts to me. Every couple of months we go over the budget together but I pretty much handle all of our finances. We both agreed on our allowances, me with more freedom just because he spoils me. He debated for a long time during our engagement about joint accounts and seprate accounts, weighed the pro's and cons and compromised. Each house is different and what works for one may not work for another.

Sidenote: Damn David, up in the market we bring up sit down and discuss issues?? Wow, glad to see you looking at the long haul though ;)

Monica said...

 "It's
cool if one person is the CFO and handles bills, but the other party
must be able to have full access to accounts and info at will." This is how we roll.

I'm a SAHM and I'm currently the acting CFO. Money that hubby earns is considered community money because we all benefit from it. Full disclosure about what the money is doing is the way to go for us. We don't do allowances.

Monica said...

Your hashtag is the truth. lol

CaliGirlED said...

LMAO that y'all had this convo, THIS way! Brother Dear, you know Chele's got that financial thing under control, and by control I do mean CONTROL! LOL!!! I totally understand your concern and the need for the convo, but time, place and wording are key!  Wrong time to question her whilst she's spending; wrong place to question her (You were in a "LeChiChi SuperMarket" right?); and "allowance" *cackles*!

Y'all are so darn cute!

Now let me see what folks are in here talking about...

tishatweets said...

*blank stare*

tishatweets said...

"We can't save that discussion for post-cocoa ev'body in a good mood afterglow ish"

Listen. Good cocoa has covered many a sin. I think this is a clothes on, yet not in the grocery store, discussion. LOL.

CaliGirlED said...

"If I don't have my Excel spreadsheet (old school but so works) when it's time to pay bills I might start breathing funny."...I knew there was a reason I liked you! This is me too! LOL

CaliGirlED said...

 I agree!!! And thanks, I forgot to mention in my comment that I wanted to cut him some slack due to not being 100% recovered! LOL

Mo said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szM7x0N9Ru4

Gwen Guthrie

CaliGirlED said...

"I tend to be a little spendy.  It is important that I have a man that is
fiscally responsible.  He must make WISE financial decisions,  have a
vision for the family, and lead us towards that vision."...Speak Micki!!! *rocks back and forth*

CaliGirlED said...

 Well DAMN!!! Straight no chaser!

Good point!

C Nelson said...

... An "allowance"? What did you let his Mama feed him while he was sick? Obviously, it had some hallucinatory side effects. 

His account, my account. Either one of those can pay the bills, or we can set up an "our" account, but both the first two need to exist, and whichever account is paying the bills will receive funding from both of us. (No kidding, I still have my credit union account in the US, and I opened an account here in Australia within two weeks of arriving. I'm not working yet, but my money needs a home only I have access to; I've done the "my name was on the joint account and he cleaned it out and now what do I do?" schtick once already. Once was enough.) If the bills are paid and I'm paying my fair share of them, I do not expect to be questioned on how I spent my own money, just like I'm not going to question every purchase Paul makes.

Also? Your career choices are your business unless he's footing the bill for it or you're doing something unethical, unsafe, or illegal.  He sounded like he had it all planned and you were just going to fall in line. I'm going to be really generous and assume that was just testing the limits to see if you were open to that.  :(

CaliGirlED said...

 It worked for Ricky and Lucy, sometimes. LMAO!!! #Sarcasm

Jubi The Great said...

You are so wack dude.

CaliGirlED said...

  I was like - we aren't broke, we aren't struggling, we are saving,
we're both employed - why are you worrying about me and the Coach
Outlet?...Point!

Jubi The Great said...

*sigh* This right here, I couldn't deal with. There is no way that I'm staying at home, not working, no exit strategy funds...and I cant even know where our money is or the passwords to the accounts?

But maybe that's just me...

CaliGirlED said...

 LOL!!! Don't ya just love lessons?

Tonda Williams said...

Speaking from the experience of being married for 12 years, together for 13. We had three accounts, one community account and we each had an individual account and we both had access to ALL accounts. We handled the bills together and no one kept a secret stash/account etc. When our marriage went left, we loved each other enough to amicably divide EVERYTHING. Our divorce took a total of 4 weeks (because we divided property before filing).  His second marriage was #HELL, despite having NO children, it took almost 2 years and she tried to take every single penny he had despite lying about her own income. Thankfully, she FAILED. I'm older and slightly more established now, so I'll require a pre-nup, to protect ONLY the property we "EACH" brought into the marriage. Other than that, I'm old-fashioned and will repeat the same process when I marry again.

CaliGirlED said...

 LOL, y'all are funny!

@ASmith86 Yes she did just correctify him! *hollers*

CaliGirlED said...

"Would you like it if Chele struck it rich & wanted to put you on an allowance?"...Have you seen her tweets about the MegaMillions? Shoooot, he better start making up NOW, she's already planning? LOL

Tonda Williams said...

Oh yeah, it is VITAL to have compatible fiscal values and financial ideologies, other wise you are DOOMED! I also believe it is VITAL that ALL of your values and ideologies ($$, spiritual, educational, familial, medical) be at the very least on the same level, even if they do not mirror each other exactly.  It will SAVE both of you some heartache...

Mo said...

 I once striked out a car purchase and Essence Music festivals once I looked at my ex-s.o  finances.  Money conversations  are hard and the tone here was a bit harsh. We live and learn right?

Rob said...

It's not easy when you come from two different economic backgrounds. I came up from serious struggle where anything that wasn't a necessity was extra and extra went into saving up to get ahead of the next necessity. My lovely wife came from a more comfortable background. If you saw something you wanted, you got it for the most part. So it's been an education for the both of us meshing our styles.  The best thing she could have done was have a separate place where I can't obsess of what she buys and why. A lot of it is faith in her that she wouldn't do anything to harm us. Faith in us that we can make it no matter what's in the bank and faith in myself that I'm not trying to go back that struggle. #LessonsLearnedfromDrJayme

Rob said...

I can't wait for Riley to meet Mrs. Riley. *grabs popcorn and awaits the Bougie Bachelor Chronicle*

Rob said...

The credit card struggle is real!

Leon X said...

In Le Dude's defense (Do I use "Le Dude?" I don't wanna put him on blast) he has the right idea but the wrong approach. Relationships usually break down because of sex and/or money.

Rob said...

*winces at the words "exit strategy funds" I understand but whoa.

Rob said...

This Negro.

Only1DivaC said...

Exactly why I like this set up. Firm believer in ours, yours, and mine. You have a household account, your account, and his account. Household account is for payment of bills and the personal accounts is for play money. If you spend your play money before you get paid again then that's on you because there will be no dipping in the household account.

Rob said...

definite kudos for bringing it up now.

CaliGirlED said...

"Let's not act like some people are not just ghetto when it comes to
handling money. We all know people driving new cars, blinged out, living
in Big Momma's basement."...But this post is not about them, when he/she writes in we'll be all over it!

CaliGirlED said...

 Same thing I'm thinking!!!

Rob said...

*dap*

CaliGirlED said...

 Who let you out of the kiddie pool?

Rob said...

It wasn't about the Coach outlet per se... never mind. Do you, baby.

Rob said...

Whoa. 

Rob said...

*bows to the greater wisdom of Bougie Brotherhood*

Jubi The Great said...

There are way too many Lifetime movies about the SAHM who's husband decides to run off with his secretary & the contents of their bank account, and the woman is left with nothing. It's not romantic to think about the "what if this doesn't work out?" factor but it's so necessary, especially when 1 party is financially dependent on the other.

CaliGirlED said...

 "When we get raises (I remember raises)..." LOL & SMH

storm529 said...

Couples should have 3 bank accounts:  1) community (shared) for the household bills, 2) individual, and 3) individual.  Each partner should have a personal bank account for their own purchases.

My financial ideology:  I am a saver -- have even been called a miser by some.  Not so, I just always make sure to pay myself first (savings, retirement plans--IRA & 401k--emergency funds, etc.) with each paycheck -- and won't touch that money, no matter what -- and don't make unnecessary purchases.  I may want those $500 Prada sandals, but I don't NEED them.    

Yes, I do believe that couples should have a similar financial ideologies because it simply makes life easier.  However, my current partner is my financial opposite.  She is not a saver and spends, spends, spends.  We do not run into conflict because we have a household acct and each of us have personal accounts.  So, she can spend her money however she likes as long as her part of the bills are taken care of.  Plus, when it comes to managing our joint budget, she leaves it to me since that is not her strength.

tishatweets said...

I wish I *might* be in a situation where I can't access the money coming in the house. That is laughable to me. Like, comedy. But I also believe a cat like this would have set off so many other red flags that a trip down the altar wouldn't have even entered my mind, so....

SAHM I can do. SAHM and crippled I cannot.

tishatweets said...

I personally love all the mentions of the Coach Outlet. That is all. LOL

storm529 said...

Not really because Lucy and Ethel were always scheming how to get more money out of Ricky (and Fred).  LOL.

Trey Charles said...

Um. Um. Um. *sits back to see how this one shakes out*

Trey Charles said...

 Preach on it.

GrownAzzMan said...

"exit strategy funds" 
Methinks someone has seen a few too many Lifetime movies...IJS

CaliGirlED said...

 Yes!!! And we will crown her Queen! LOL

CaliGirlED said...

 LOVE THIS!!!

JaymeC said...

I need to understand the construct of David's thinking here. Clearly, he did not understand the ramification of poor word choice. "Allowance" struck a chord (a bad note apparently) with Chele and from there she wasn't trying to hear what he had to say.

If DLC was truly trying to test the water cicra her appetite to sit down and be taken care of - that's a different conversation. If he was curious about how she reaches spending decision, that could have been worded more efficiently.

And of course timing was ill-advised. I'm going to cut him some slack this being his first week upright and relatively healthy.

Owen and I have separate accounts and a household fund but one Mint.com login with all the accounts, house, car, retirement, credit cards visible. Unless something felt off it wouldn't occur to us to pop in and see who spent what and why.  Who has that kind of time?

AnthonyJ1167 said...

Note to Le Dude:

Bougieness is a wonderful thing....but it gets expensive sometimes. Be easy bruh & good luck!

AJ

CaliGirlED said...

 I know, but that darn Lucy could get blood from a turnip! LOL

GrownAzzMan said...

Slide over. I brought beer...

JaymeC said...

 Did she mention anything about hooking up friends? :)

JaymeC said...

 Bless his heart.

JaymeC said...

 And now I think a trip to said outlet is in order.

CaliGirlED said...

 Girl he would be looking for me in the daytime with a flashlight, and find me not! Plenty of red flags that she either ignored or thought would go away. But hey she's married nah!

JaymeC said...

 and wow.

JaymeC said...

 "a lot of other things were torn asunder" <~~ truth. But she was terrible about money. Thought it grew on trees and you could always plant another one.

lawsoncomp said...

Oh, Chele. I am 1000% in your camp. You broke it down. No one should evah make you feel completely dependent like a child. There's trust, there's collaboration and there's autonomy. None of those things are exclusive of the others.

lawsoncomp said...

And I am "liking" you to get you to the 1000 mark. You're not off the mark though. It was David's approach that was flawed for sure.

SingLikeSassy said...

I think it was cool that D wanted to have this conversation with you as it *should* happen before folks are married then looking at each other all crazy. I don't think it should have happened in the grocery store and he does sort of suggest you might be irresponsible with your money. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong tone. But not the wrong discussion. Y'all should revisit it later.

I think I have fully established in these parts my love of money, so you won't be surprised to know that when I was married, I was the chief financial officer. Not that my ex wasn't good with money cause we never would have been married had that been the case, but I was more FOCUSED on saving it, growing it. As long as he had what he needed, he was fine, and he's generous, as in, I could call him right now and say I needed X amount and if he had it, I would get it and if he didn't have it, I could get what he did have.

Also, in theory I believed in community money, but in practice I could not close my bank account I had opened with my mama the August before I left for my freshman year of college. He had two BofA accounts and we just added my name to one of those and then opened an ING account.

We worked our finances out like this:  I had a house and he had a house. I moved into his house. He had always paid the bills there so he continued to pay the bills there. The only debt I had was my mortgage and the bills associated with that. I got a tenant. So, my job was fun money, building savings and I paid our car insurance (we added his car to my plan, which cost us less money because we got thanks to him being in the Army Reserves).

I don't expect things to work like that if I remarry, as every marriage is different, but I know I could not marry someone who was a spendthrift and/or has jacked up credit (my husband let me see his credit report before we married). I need a mate who is a good steward of his finances as that is part of what makes me feel loved, provided for and secure.

SingLikeSassy said...

 This all up there that you described would have my nerves bad. And likely some blood shed at some point. But then, I would hope I wouldn't have married someone who would handle me and money like that. *shudders*

Sersi72 said...

I think it is a vital discussion to have and it shows that he is thinking of "Long Term" but not in the grocery store and especially not if he isn't going to be cooking. My parents God bless them have been together for 46 years and the saying is "My money is my money and his money is my money." I have been lucky enough to find a great guy who agrees with this philosophy probably because I can squeeze a dime out of a penny and I had to beat him LOL but we have 3 accounts and he determines what he needs out of his check and I determine "We" need out of his check ;) we don't have a budget because I was taught to live at least 20% under what I make and 15% of that goes into savings(product of 3rd world parents). I don't really buy anything unless I say "can I own it" not "I can afford the payments" as for him looking at your future career goals well that is a different conversation to have at a different time.  As for the "allowance" I am torn on that. I am pretty independent and would feel like he didn't have faith in my financial skills. After all you didn't meet me living under a bridge so give me some credit but if you would like to pay for my day of beauty then by all means "spoil me" a little besides you benefit from it too.

SingLikeSassy said...

Interesting. Many a woman has told her daughter/sister/niece etc. to make sure you have some get away money. That has been especially helpful for people in domestic violence situations.

blackprofessor said...

 I feel you on the prenup! One of my good friends is a lawyer and she would skin me if I got married without one.

tishatweets said...

"I also believe it is VITAL that ALL of your values and ideologies ($$, spiritual, educational, familial, medical) be at the very least on the same level, even if they do not mirror each other exactly."

Truth. I always wanna know who your God is, gauge your fiscal responsibility, whether you're estranged from your family, and what you think about children--and that was before I even had one. Those answers are very telling.

CaliGirlED said...

 Well she did say Regulars of BnB could come to BougieLand ( her tropical island) and Michelokai (her Hawaiian island) for free! And if we get that, I can't even imagine what YOU would get! ;-)

Nylse said...

bigger than the money, is trusting your partner. so we have one account - i spend, he spends, and no one really questions the other.  that's the oversimplified view, but this has been working for 23 years.  He's worked, I've worked, I've been unemployed, so has he, sometimes i made more, most times he - many variations throughout the years - but we trust and understand each other.

blackprofessor said...

 I get your point Jubi. It sounds harsh but unfortunately some people have been hoodwinked, bamboozled and run amok by their spouses when it comes to finances.  I hope to never be in that situation but I can definitely understand the instinct to protect oneself financially even when married.

blackprofessor said...

Especially Southern Black women! My aunts and mama are like "You better not tell that man how much money you make, have or have invested."

CaliGirlED said...

 Here's to your 1,000! *clicks like button*

blackprofessor said...

 I also believe it is VITAL that ALL of your values and ideologies ($$,
spiritual, educational, familial, medical) be at the very least on the
same level, even if they do not mirror each other exactly. - This right here is everything!

La said...

I won't even lie, I winced a bit when reading "allowance." The LOGICAL part of me understood what was TRYING to be articulated. The REAL me, however, was like, "now, say what now?"

Chele, I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to managing money. A household account we both contribute to in whatever manner we decide together (50/50 split, based on who makes more, certain bills delegated to certain people, whatever) and then your account and my account. I don't care what you do with your account. And don't expect an accounting of my shoe budget.

I am fairly good with my money but if my boo was better, they can have it. I am all about everybody playing to their strengths in the relationship. I think it's important we have at least complimentary ideas about our financial lives. If your idea of saving is living like a college kid for a big purchase, and mine is working OT and cutting out extra spending and we aren't comfortable with the other's means to accomplish our shared goals, there is going to be some head butting.

tishatweets said...

"I need a mate who is a good steward of his finances as that is part of what makes me feel loved, provided for and secure."

Indeed.

La said...

I think that faith is important. The separate accounts shouldn't be a point of derision or suspicion, if for no other reason than you trust that your partner is looking out for the best interests of the marriage just like you are.

La said...

Wait... what?! There is money coming into THE HOUSE SHE TAKES CARE OF and he won't share details WITH HIS WIFE?
And SHE WON'T PUSH BACK ABOUT IT?!
Oh.

I will take "I'm not 'Bout That Life" for $500, Alex.

Mo said...

My co-worker calls it a (excuse the language) F . U. account.

La said...

I think this is really interesting, the difference in how "exit strategy funds" are viewed. Ever since I was young, all the women in my life, happily married, bitterly single, whatever, have espoused the benefits of exit strategy funds. When I was younger, it was making sure I had enough money to pay for my own dinner and get home if things went south on a date. When i got older it was making sure I had enough money to get my own place if our shared space wasn't safe or healthy. As I get towards the age where everyone is looking for me to get married, the advice is to make sure I can move out, provide for myself and hire a lawyer if I need one. The advice has always been given much in the spirit of advice about prenups; invest in never needing to use it, but have it if it becomes necessary. I've noticed in my own life, and now here that this practice has a negative connotation to it from the male perspective. Is this not something men are taught too?

tishatweets said...

Yep. That's old school wisdom right there. I can dig it. Money (or, more fitting, lack thereof) shouldn't keep you in a relationship that you would otherwise not be in.

OwenCinDallas said...

Even if it wasn't well said or executed - Money has to be talked about early and often.

OwenCinDallas said...

I make take a gander every once and a while but with zero comment. Zero.

OwenCinDallas said...

I would bring Skittles but apparently those are too aggressive. Twizzlers?

OwenCinDallas said...

I'll take "Insecure Husbands with Issues" for $1000

OwenCinDallas said...

Oh dear.

Pretty Primadonna said...

That, plus, honestly, the way this guy is handling his wife and hiding assets, she probably DOES need an exit strategy.  It does not sound like he's on the up and up with that...

cocolamala said...

groceries are the cheapest luxury item in a budget. you could have been blowing cash on food  at restaurants (and fast food joints). that's way more expensive than going to the store, but he probably doesn't even notice or question the cost when you both want to go out for a meal.
 
i think he's just jelly because you have great taste in food. not to mention, its condescending to question your food shopping choices when he's not paying the bill, and is obviously bored with the grocery store himself. i dont' think that conversation was about the cost of food as much as it was about him being tired of the grocery store...just my 3 cents.
 
i know my monthly budget, and i can go into a store and seemingly randomly grab items off the shelves, but it typically adds up to within pennies of my projected spending amount. its only random to my husband who doesn't have solid ideas/expectations about what items cost, because he didn't spend time comparing ads and prices like i have. 

Jeannette said...

You nailed it on the head....

invectiva said...

Nah, son.

#1  "I know but I think you should put yourself on an allowance."    If you don't know enough about her finances to know how she spends/saves/plans for the future, you don't know enough to have ever uttered this phrase (or one similar). Think about it. 

#2  "Allowance to play with" is infantilizing someone who is Grown. Don't go there with an already self-sufficient woman. You could wind up with a Bougie stiletto across the instep and require a cleanup in aisle three.

#3  The way this was presented it seems like you were having this conversation while standing in judgement of the things going into the grocery cart. Again, a place you shouldn't go, especially when she cooks for you the same way she cooks for herself and BougieMom.

#4  It's not being stubborn "for no good reason" when your partner requires autonomy. This isn't about someone's shoe or gadget purchases or how wasteful one person thinks those things are when another is doing the shopping. Autonomy is about treating your partner like a responsible adult, and valuing/respecting their decision making processes. If you devalue the person, you devalue the relationship.

Of course, talking about finances is crucial for relationships that will go the distance, but you already know what's important to Chele in a partner in terms of fiscal responsibility, at least if the Chele you're dating is the same Chele on this blog. Why would you think she would be less strict about those things for herself? She wouldn't be where she is without a solid financial strategy in place.  Coming at this like you already believe she needs to change indicates you either have no faith in her skills/planning or you've got some unexamined "head of household" ideas that you soaked up from society. Might be time to give those a look.

David Chase said...

*sticks head in door* My bad.
*shuts door behind me*

Ace of Rambles said...

When the bf and I lived together we split everything down the middle and after that we spent or saved separately. We didnt feel the need for joint accounts.

invectiva said...

 This all day.

CaliGirlED said...

 *hollers*

ShawnSoze said...

 You gonna have to better than that. #kaching

Sol_dier said...

*pause*. This is from left field and I just don't get it, suffice to say, its really insulting. 

Doesn't even seem to be about money all that much but more of control & dominance .

I hope Le Dude actually takes steps to understand why and how insulting it was so it does happen again under a different guise. Apologising is easy, the difficult part is unlearning toxic experiences.

I wish you both goodkuck 

storm529 said...

Sorry, I know I am late, but are you Le Dude?

Tonda Williams said...

THIS....I'll be serving "RileyNoseWideOpenTinis"

cece said...

Interesting. I used to work as an escort and wondered how come all the married men's wives didn't know that hundreds of dollars were missing every week! Now I know that there are women who literally have no idea what's going on. Not about that at all. Ya'll be having an allowance and he be giving the extra money away to Coco's "college fund." 

tishatweets said...

Ricky and Lucy also slept in separate beds.... *whistles as I'm walking out*

David Chase said...

 Most days.

OneChele said...

He is.

Bryan Anthony said...

Wow - you got all that? Toxicity, control and dominance from this conversation?
Okay then.

Bryan Anthony said...

When Jazz and I first got together, we were brokedown broke and just trying to stay afloat. It wasn't until later, when we had a little something something that we actually had to figure out how to handle money in a way that worked for both of us. As you say, these are relationship growing pains. 

mojitochica said...

"Well I'm just looking down the line. You could write full-time and I would give you an allowance to play with."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  David, grown folks don't do allowances. The end.

Onto the questions:
What's the thinking on community money and allowances?
Yours, mine, and ours account.

For my
married/cohab folks - who holds the purse strings?
Married checking in.  I manage mine and ours accounts.  Mr. Mojito is free to manage his own account provided he isn't racking up crazy debt.  I would know because I'm the one that pulls the credit reports multiple times a year.

For everybody, do you
have a financial ideology?
Ladies you should always have your own account in your own name.  Statistically speak you will outlive your mate.  Be financially prepared for that day.

How important is that your financial
philosophy match your s/o's?
Extremely important, I would never be with anyone that was a spend-thrift.  Your spouse's finances can negatively affect your finances depending on the state in which you live.  I don't play around when it comes to money.

AnnettePearl said...

First - thanks for sharing these slivers of your life so we can dissect the hell out of them and learn and discuss. Second - perhaps DLC got this from John who tried to have a similar conversation and used the word "stipend" instead of allowance. Under the guise of "after we're married, you don't have to work" - on the one hand, great. I'm not getting any younger, we want kids right away so it's good to know you got me and I can spend time having/raising/etc. But on the flip, hold up. I've been doing me for a while. Not about to let go of career, bank accounts, etc just because there's a Mrs in front of a new last name. As you say - this is discussion worthy.

All Honey said...

Ah David - right idea, wrong delivery.

rozb said...

David - did you bump your head while you were sick last week and maybe experiencing a delayed reaction to the injury? I mean - author and hard-working career woman who is handling all her business in the most bougie manner - has been doing it well. Isn't that one of the reasons you were attracted to her? Not just pretty but she had her stuff together?

You might need to go into your budget and apologize in the correct manner...IJS...

Yofabulous said...

His/Hers/Ours = Peace in my home.  Household bills got paid, he got his comic books and I got my shoes. Our marriage didn't break up over money.

Money also equals control.  An allowance is cool if you're pursuing a career goal that won't pay off right away, and your partner is being supportive, but under any other circumstances it hints at a need to control what you do and that always makes me nervous.  

You have finer tastes and have budgeted accordingly so that you can enjoy what you like.  I see no problem with that as long as the bills get paid and you put something away for a rainy day.  Shop on!

I agree with the other posters that you need to have the money talk prior to taking this relationship to the next level, but there is a time and a place for everything, and that wasn't it.

CaliGirlED said...

LOL!!! Even as a little girl I thought that was just wrong!

Perhaps when Lucy wanted an increase two became one?

ASmith said...

you gotta correctify folks when they're wrong!

CaliGirlED said...

"First - thanks for sharing these slivers of your life so we can dissect the hell out of them and learn and discuss."...Yes indeed!!!

Bougie Bruhs are really showing out! Stipend??? John!

CaliGirlED said...

"Isn't that one of the reasons you were attracted to her? Not just pretty but she had her stuff together?"...That's what he said, I remember! *snickers*

GammasWorld said...

I haven't read all the comments, but anywho.  Right conversation to have but wrong place to start such discussion.  All the way left on that intro.    If this were Fringe, I'd say AltLeDude has crossed universes and the real LeDude is on the other side trying to get home.    Try this again when you guys are alone, preferably at home.    I don't have a partner, but I think I'd like the his/hers/ours approach.  My ex-husband and I (many many years ago) had the  mine/mine approach - not a good look.  

GammasWorld said...

I was just thinking the same thing!  I'm not a total idiot but finances aren't my specialty.    A fiscally responsible man that isn't using his position to control or lessen my role in the relationship is totally okay with me.  

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

Single, and just starting to get my financial life together, so....I'll sit here and take notes.

Stephanie said...

This is one dinner table I wouldn't want to sit at

Angel Blanca said...

I can't believe I missed all of this today, but it's made for excellent bedtime reading!

DLC, I get where you're going. You might, however, take a different route next time...as I'm sure you've already figured.

Chele, is he really looking too far down the road, or are you being skittish?

You two have an amazing relationship, and I know you'll work through this, too...just keep talking...at appropriate times/places.

Angel Blanca said...

I can't believe I missed all of this today, but it's made for excellent bedtime reading!

DLC, I get where you're going. You might, however, take a different route next time...as I'm sure you've already figured.

Chele, is he really looking too far down the road, or are you being skittish?

You two have an amazing relationship, and I know you'll work through this, too...just keep talking...at appropriate times/places.

Sol_dier said...

Yes. 

Thats what I got from it. you obviously didn't, thats cool.

 Toxic experience as in : 

When you use the frame of something bad that has happened somewhere in ur life previously to inform the present.  Maybe le dude has been around people who spend money like water with no regard for the future that could be why he phrased things the way he did.

keishabrown said...

TOO SOON! 
*snickers anyways doe.

AGDM said...

Late and all but if you are cohabitating I think its just simple if you have a shared budget for household bills that you both contribute to equally, then you have your left overs to do what with and he has his. 

Me personally, Right now I'm just not with it someone I'm seeing having foresight into my financial matters so they can poo poo my decisions that do not have diddly to do with that person. Especially if she wasn't w me shootin' in the gym. I got a lot of mind changing, introspective time havin, and perspective altering to do before I can get to that "this here is all of our money". I work too hard and put up with enough shenanigans to be handing over my check. Unless she is a young Warren Buffet in a dress... hmm, I take that visual back. apologies.

MissFLondon said...

This man you're with lacks tact and does not sound altogether well meaning.

This will not be the last of such conversations or the last time that a disagreement about one particular thing will lead him to gracelessly point out your perceived general faults.

His future plans for you r meant to flatter you, as he's telling you that he means to stick around but it just comes across as presumptuous.

One Chele said...

Speaking from the experience of being married for 12 years, together for 13. We had three accounts, one community account and we each had an individual account. We both had access to ALL accounts, handled the bills together and no one kept a secret stash/account etc. When our marriage went left, we loved each other enough to amicably divide EVERYTHING. Our divorce took a total of 4 weeks (because we divided property before filing).  His second marriage was #HELL, despite having NO children, it took almost 2 years and she tried to take every single penny he had while lying about her own income. Thankfully, she FAILED. I'm older and slightly more established now, so I'll require a pre-nup, to protect ONLY the property we "EACH" brought into the marriage. Other than that, I'm old-fashioned and will repeat the same process when I marry again.

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