Before we dive into today's cauldron, if you never read my post "Who's the Rabbit?" feel free to take a looky-loo now. It's pertinent to today's discussion. Then come on back. Today we have a letter from a man we'll call Z. He shares the following scenario:
Hey Michele,I've got a question for you and the rest of bougieland based on some recent conversations (ok, arguments) I've had. Without going into too much detail, here's the situation: "A friend" is dating a young lady and they both love each other...very, very much. No ifs, ands, or buts. The problem...uh, issue...is that she feels like she pursued him in the beginning which does not fit in with her image of herself and the idea that in a "typical" scenario, the guy pursues the girl, not the other way around. Because of this, she's questioning the relationship and whether it would have happened had she not pursued. You with me? That's the background.
Here's the question(s): How important is it for women to feel pursued? Aren't there times when women see a guy, then put themselves in a position to be pursued? Is that different? How much does being pursued play into a woman's self image? If, after a woman expresses initial interest (on a couple/few occasions), the guy starts the pursuit, does that somehow diminish the relationship?
Obviously, I know the answer will be different for every person, but at this point, any insights that can help "my friend" make sense of things and make things right so that the relationship can keep progressing, would be greatly appreciated.Thanks.
You're welcome! Most of these questions were answered in my rabbit post but there are a few things I want to point out. Sure, it's great to be the one pursued. But in the end, if you're both where you want to be - why ruin it by dwelling on how you got there?
I don't think the relationship is diminished unless there was some stalkerish-Fatal-Attraction-type chase and capture going on. So the woman may have put herself in the path to be "discovered" by the man... that's just good use of feminine wiles. As long as once woman attracts man's attention, he goes all in - it matters not a wit. Let's not let ego and chaseology (yes, I made it up) scotch up a good thing.
And I'm sorry to add this part on (but it's true) sometimes fellas can be... um... unfocused. If a woman helps him to focus in on her and he likes what he sees... again, that's just being helpful. If they are both happy in the end, so be it.
We're in the midst of about twelve BougieLand hook-ups (that I'm aware of) right about now . Half of those are because the bougie chick spied bougie bruh and tapped old boy on the shoulder to say what's up. No one seems to be complaining. But let me put it to the people...
66 comments:
GammasWorld ~ I'm STILL waiting on Chele to bring in the Mature Men's Bougie Brigade. *Hint -Hint* ;-)
I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph if that is really the issue between them. The only thing I would say is that the friend needs to tell the woman that the way you start a relationship pretty much sets the tone for it. If the woman starts as the aggressor it is unlikely that they will switch places, she will always be the aggressor. If a woman is cool with that dynamic, then she is free to pursue a man. I personally think most women don't understand that and end up in a potential situation like the letter writer.
"12 Bougieland hookups? Maybe I need to move to Dallas......" <-----THIS. Right here.
I believe in "dropping my handkerchief" metaphorically speaking...
Good Morning Bougieland, long time no see. I've been following in the footsteps of my BougieCousin and working on my writing, too busy to drop a line but I've been reading everyday. I had to speak up on this one though.
My Daddy raised me to be old school, bougie and a lady. I was raised by him and Disney so being a "rabbit" was instilled in me from the very beginning. I believe in being the prey. Keep the coat nice and shiny, fluff up the tail, hop along where I can be seen, never too slow but never too fast either. If I saw a hunter I didn't like into my rabbithole I would go, but if I liked the look of the shotgun, the hunters walk, his outfit for the day then out of the hole and all around the forest I could be found. Whenever I went off script things didn't work out well, a rabbit hunting hunters gets the short end of the stick but a hunted bunny gets a good hunter. I don't see any harm in making yourself noticeable, maybe even throwing a twig or 2 to get noticed but taking the whole damn tree, making it fall on the hunter and dragging him to your hole just ain't right. If you have to go through all that to get him, you are going to have to go through just as much to keep him.
I'm sure you don't have to be in Dallas. LOL
Because of this, she's questioning the relationship and whether it would have happened had she not pursued.
Seriously? Why are folks making up problems? Relationships are hard enough without worrying about unnecessary stuff.
Look, it is what it is. The point is, you pursued the right person, and y'all are in love and happy. Just enjoy your relationship! Sheesh! What, are you worried about the story is gonna sound when you tell it on TheKnot..com?
Awwhhh, now isnt this sweet ? She's so new at this "girl catch a man game", that she hasnt yet perfected the age old tradition of "snagging that man and making him believe it was all his idea". Behold the innocence of youth ! Now run and get yourself a Cosmopolitan magazine subscription and take the monthly quiz..You'll be alright. #WomanlyWiles
thinklikeRiley gets the gold star today. A lot of you got caught up in the "she gotta man, why's she complaining" and didn't stop to wonder if maybe there's something else here. I'd love to hear her side of this, why she brought it up and why it's a source of discontent for her. For instance, if you won your s/o "by default" wouldn't you always wonder in the back of your mind "what if?" Who knows how many hoops she had to jump through to get Z's attention. Is she worried that if she doesn't maintain that level of intensity, the interest will fade? Maybe she is not secure in her role or what the next step is- so bringing up how the relationship originated is her way of opening the discussion door.
Let's remind ourselves that he wrote in for help not ridicule. Do better, BougieLand. Sorry Chele- minor lecture.
Given that I don't understand "the game" very much (evidenced by not being in on nor part of any of these damn hookups), I can't offer any insight as to the hunter and rabbit scenario. However, as with so many of these relationship dilemmas, this seems on the surface to be an issue with honest communication with self and partner. Maybe she needs some kind of reassurance that dude is not providing. Maybe dude doesn't know she needs it. I don't know. They need to talk to each other though. Just saying.
I know, right ?
Bad CaliGirl! *slaps hand*
Thank you! Was really starting to feel like I was the only one seeing the other side to this....
Twelve BougieLand hook-ups? Apparently, I have no game and need to get out more. *fluffs cottontail*
Am going to go against what alot of folks are saying the relationship may be all good and they do love each other BUT......
The problem here could be that she is still in the driver’s
seat, still doing everything still making all the decisions taking all the
leads. She started a race that she doesn’t want to finish running. Now she is questioning
if it will always be that way.
It’s a very delicate balance if you are going to pursue a man. Most men liked to be pursued but after you show interest you gotta back off and let them take the lead.
When pursuing a man if he doesn't respond then you should discontinue your efforts, and guard your heart so that you can be of good cheer, and a great attitude when the right guy comes along who is good ground for you and your seeds of kindness, and attention.
BTW It’s nice to be the rabbit but with so much competition out there sometimes you gotta do a little extra to get noticed.
Did you hear her say, "I'm not scared of you!", because he started yelling? LOL!!!
LOL! If they end up getting together mom MUST show this at the reception. The crying and whining is over the top though - he needs some football with no pads STAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj15Gta9ngY&feature=player_embedded...Maybe this is what ol' girl is scared may happen.
Bwahahahaha!!! There are some grown men wishing they would have done this! LMAO!!!...At least she was still trying to clean up behind him!
I'm going to need to know why friend is questioning -- and the only person who can answer that is her. Either she's got pre-wedding jitters and is looking for something to justify them, or something a whole lot more recent is going on and the beginning is the thing she can put her finger on. Figure that part out, and then get to the "what do we do about it" -- and if it's the jitters, the answer is "find a hobby". (Seriously, friend. Go volunteer, take up painting, crochet afghans for your bed, anything that will keep you busy and not self-destructing.) If it's more serious than that, though, the person she should be talking to is her partner. There's nothing wrong with saying "I feel a little tired and down, I want some spoiling for awhile." What he does in response to that request will tell her all she needs to know about whether he's as deeply committed as she is.
I'm used to friends complaining about one thing but when you dig deeper the issue is something that isn't as cut and dry clear ( ie they don't want you to tell them they are wrong ).
I don't think the girl wouldn't be tripping if everything was perfect. I suspect her dominant role has continued past the courtship and its gotten old. Meanwhile Passive Paul thinks everything is perfect and wants to continue with things moving forward as is.
You're absolute right! She started something she's not prepared to finish!
I prefer to be the rabbit. For me, that is the proper order of things. But if we are in some "no ifs, ands or buts" about it kinda love who the hell cares what path we took to get there? This is some first world problem ish here, that's for sure.
ETA: If her REAL issue is that she is in the driver's seat when she prefers to be a passenger, then she should address that and not confuse people with this "I pursued him and would we be together if I hadn't" nonsense.
1. If she loves him, he loves her, she's happy with him, he's happy with her, what's the problem? Honestly, who cares who chased whom at this point.
2. Can I get a CT/NYC Bougie hook-up?!
"We met over our love of computers and electronics" <-LOLLLLLLLLLLL
Now that we all agree that old girl is trippin...can we get a rundown on these 12 BougieLand hookups? Is there like a BougieLand hookup waiting list? Spill it Chele
I am the rabbit all day everyday! I don't mind enhancing a man's focus but a gentleman that takes the initiative to pursue me and keep that level of interest at the forefront has not a problem with me.
She is wondering and second guessing and it could be nothing but then it could actually be something. If it's just about the "how they got to happy" then she needs to admit it and get over it if she wants to be with this person. If it's second guessing because she is the one doing all the steering (thanks Riley) and no longer wants that then that's a real discussion to have.
Either I'm reading too much or most of you are not reading the details the OP has left out. Everything is NOT perfect otherwise she would not keep looking backwards to how it started. I'm amazed so many of you are assuming that she is just looking for trouble.
I feel like you are hinting at the fact that since she took on the dominant role as the pursuer, she is not happy because she is in essence the "man" when she wants to be the "woman" in the relationship. If that is what you are saying, I get that but it isn't clear from this letter that is the issue, hence the reason most are saying "Quit tripping."
I think that is one of the pertinent details that the OP has left out on behalf of his "friend".
IMO, this is not something she should be discussing with anyone, but one or two very close girlfriends.
Also, it's not up to me to say that something shouldn't be bothering someone. I am in a new relationship and some of the ish that bothers me would make some people 0_0 or think I am ungrateful. I am not. I'm just introspective.
I prefer to be the rabitt and was in this relationship. He has and continues to hunt me down and I like it that way. But I feel like it is a give and take. He jokes that I spoil him, but I only do that because I know he will do the same for me. Maybe the young lady's problem is she not feeling enough reciprocity.
Tell it like it is. i can feel you on this.
I'm gonna need 'ol girl to be quiet. She and her man are at a good place, why look for ways to take away from or question that? So long as she didn't lie or deceive him somehow, she needs to let it go.
Anyways.... I'm a Rabbit all day 'ery day. I strongly refuse to chase a man. Now, don't get me wrong, if I'm interested in a guy and he's seemingly unaware I'll find a way to be around him a bit more often and drop a few hints, but I'm not about to fall out and say take me or go trying to hunt him myself. If I have to do the latter, as far as I'm concerned the guy's only with me because I was easy prey (and I don't like men that go for easy), or I clubbed him over the head (and I don't want to feel like I badgered him into a relationship).
At most, since some men can't take hints or have too many options to go for the "might be interested, I *think* she likes me" women, I'll be more direct, but I always leave the ball in his court. I might say "we should have lunch sometime" or "call me", but it's still on him to make something happen.
This is a classic example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill!!!...Hell he should be worried! On their wedding day, she'll be pacing back and forth wondering if she picked the right date!
Where the hell is Dr. Jayme??? I still can't with this!
I have got to the be the rabbit. I'm too traditional to be anything else. As far as the above scenario, if the two people are in a good relationship what difference does it make how they got there?
Woman asks man out, man says yeah. They fall in love, everything is going so swimmingly that she has to reach back to the past to find issue with how they met?.
Woman, this is so not an issue. He loves you NOW. O_O. Seriously? What is it with people just not appreciating the gifts they have in hand.Z, I don't know what to say to you, cos if that was my friend, I would seriously give her the side eye of doom.
Bammas be steady trying to sabotage a good thing trying to fit their situation into some Disney-fied fantasy of real life. She (and he) needs to be grateful she has what a lot of folks are looking for and use the CYMAD principle.
TWELVE BOUGIELAND HOOKUPS? Clearly I'm out of the loop!
Ok...now I think old girl is tripping. If they are happy & in love, then does it REALLY matter if she had to wave to get his attention? As long as she didn't put a gun to his head and "hey you, love me or else!" then ultimately he chose her right? So what's the problem?
I swear, some folks are worried about the wrong damn stuff.
Exactly! I think those are two separate issues and the letter doesn't suggest her not wanting to be the leader in the relationship.
Thanks for missing me.
Love it! **adds to my innanets and 'dem acronym dictionary**
If this is the biggest problem, they have no problems.
Dead!
I actually get where you're going with this. She feels she initiated the relationship, is she also driving where it goes and how? If so she's wondering what happens if she lets go of the wheel?
That's interesting - paging Dr. Jayme.
Hmm. I wonder if sumthin' else is behind her "issues"
Where Dr. Jayme - she could say it better.
Is she worried about being the one to steer?
I was starting to think I was the only one that agrees with you. If EVERYTHING was so perfect she wouldn't be going back to how they started. Maybe he's passive in all aspects and she is tired of always being the sparkplug. Instead of blaming the girl maybe the writer should have his "friend" check himself to make sure that he is in fact not contributing to her constant reflections to the start.
If she's looking backwards then she is not looking to move forward the same way they are right now. He needs to understand that things are NOT as perfect as he thinks and love is not enough. If he thinks that she is the one and if she is what he wants HE may need to step it up have a n honest conversation regarding expectations and how they can move forward and then between the two of them find a new space to faciliate the movement forward.
FTW!
"What, are you worried about the story is gonna sound when you tell it on TheKnot..com?"
::Officially Gone on to Glory::
lmao
Welcome back! I was wondering where you've been.
"Sure, it's great to be the one pursued. But in the end, if you're both where you want to be - why ruin it by dwelling on how you got there?"
This!
No.Further.Text.
I think I'm going against the grain of today's comments. She has him now, and that's wonderful. *tosses confetti*
However, it's all good until it gets tossed in your face, or you want the man to take on a traditional role like proposing to you and he wants to remind you that you wanted to be Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem.
She set the tone of this relationship and may be regretting the tune she is now listening to.
hahahahahahaha! Girl I'm not even going there today.
Still haven't found a way to comment without cussin! *goes back to work*
LOL... Ok!? Get your Oleta Adams on Maureen ... "jet plane.. i don't care how we get there.. "
Bwahahahaha!!! I'm so stealing this one!!!
I agree with you Chele. They are happy now and that's all that matters. I prefer to be hunted, i'm not about chasing a man. I might give you an indication that i'm interested and put it out there, but if the carrot isn't taken, i'll snatch it right back and on to the next. I'm a "glass is full" type of woman, if you aren't feeling the essence of Jeannette someone will :)
Stealing. This. #win #win #win
So everything is cool except for the fact that she played Elmer Fudd this time? Unless she flat out threw herself at the man, I don't see the problem. Actually she fared better than Fudd, she actually got her rabbit.
I guess she thinks things are going along too well. Why else would she try to stir up discord where there need not be any?
i don't think there's anything wrong with a woman putting herself out there to be pursued. my last girlfriend initiated our contact. i was definitely attracted to her but i guess i was pussyfooting around so she kind of made the initial contact and allowed me to take it from there. didn't diminish the relationship at all.
chele is right. sometimes men can be a little bit unfocused and need a bump in the right direction.
CYMAD: Calm Yo' Monkey A$$ Down
"What, are you worried about the story is gonna sound when you tell it on TheKnot..com?" Ha! Exactly! I've known folks who met online and didn't tell the truth about how they met on their wedding website. Saying some shat like "We met over our love of computers and electronics"....huh? Or just leaving the 'how we met' part out entirely. Sometimes I want to call them out and say, "Girl...I love that you guys met on eHarmony. Love can be found anywhere." Stop playing.
Might I add that I agree with all of the comments thus far. It doesn't make sense to make trouble where there isn't any. Who wins the lottery, cashes in and then burns the check? An insane person that's who. Life is life, somethings start off not the way we planned but if the end result is good then keep it. Some of my best friendships started from something crazy, I don't regret them or try to sabbotage them, in fact we laugh and are glad that our rocky road got us to our happy ending. Geesh, what is wrong with this lady? *laser beam side-eye*
There is a song that is playing at the back of my mind, I can't get the words right though. "I don't care how we get there, just get me there.... something along those lines." Z your friend is about to mess a good thing fussing over who is "The Rabbit." Did she ask this Q b/c she is getting a certain vibe or she is just bent over status quo? I say if everything is great, enjoy the relationship. Life is too short for all these back and forth.
12 Bougieland hookups? Maybe I need to move to Dallas......
I like to be the Rabbit, but if a strategic scenario presented itself I would not mind going against the grain.
I can't with this ungratefulness this here morning!!! I need a drink after reading this madness! *click my heels 3 times and goes somewhere where it's 5pm*
She must be bored because who cares at this point?? You got the man you wanted so case closed!
Seriously? Everything is going so well that she has to go back to the how it all began to find a problem? I don't care if she stuck her foot out and tripped ol' boy and then batted her eyes and helped him up. They are together now. Self-sabotage much? Really?
I'm out. I got stuff to do...
Ok, we are going to need a Bougie dictionary. What is CYMAD?
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