Tuesday, June 14, 2011

The thing about stroking a man's big... ego


Explaining yesterday's epic dose of snark...

For the twenty-two-millionth time, someone decided to write an article telling women how to make a man feel like a man. Offering such sage advice as "Let him order for you" "Give him full reign in the bedroom" "Let him figure out the directions" "Pleasure him while he's driving" and "Fix his plate" the article says these are ways to let your man know how much you love and appreciate him. Just as him giving you "daily compliments and kisses" lets you know how much you are valued.

To which I respond with a resounding:
The whole vibe came across very Harlequin romance-y and not so much based in reality. It seemed to me as though the article was advocating ego-stroking just for stroking's sake. Which is fine every now and again but on the regular?  C'mon now. I love men. I don't mind giving a man his just due. If you are fantabulous I will show you and tell you and be uberappreciative. But if pumping you up is just propping you up, I have an issue. I decided to seek male opinion:

I had drinks with David, Trey, their frat brother Bryan and Jayme's husband Owen. I took the opportunity to discuss this whole "make a man feel like a man" concept. David is in a relationship, Trey is hunting looking, Bryan has been married for seven years, Owen has been married for close to twenty. Here's what they had to say:
Owen: A man is either a man or he isn't. If he's waiting on a woman to make him feel like one, there's a bigger problem underfoot. 
Trey: Agree but I don't mind a little ego stroke. 
Bryan: These days you'd be happy for any kind of stroke. 
Me: Play nice. 
Trey: What I mean is, it's great to feel appreciated but I don't need a woman to sit there in angry silence while I'm driving in circles. If I'm lost, say I'm lost. Help a brutha out. We wastin' gas cuz you want me to feel like a man behind the wheel? 
David: The overall vibe should be of mutual respect and admiration. Listen when I speak, act like I'm adding value to your world, be appreciative of things I do for you. I'll reciprocate. That stays with me longer than whether or not you scooped rice and chicken onto a plate for me. 
Owen: People get too caught up in these "How to" rules. How bout some basic common sense and courtesy? Jayme cooks most of the time so I get up and fix the plates. We have a GPS because I don't need "Owen, you missed the right turn" drama.  
Bryan: And speaking of driving - that whole treat him like a lollipop in traffic concept? That's some "we on vacation and don't care about the rental car" flow right there. C'mon now. I got kids. As for the daily compliment and kiss, that's sweet in theory. But when you've been in a relationship and married for a while, it's more genuine to say what you feel when you feel it. No, I don't tell my wife she's gorgeous everyday but when I say it,  I mean it and she's appreciative of that. 
Trey: That food ordering idea is a FAIL. People have allergies. I'm not presumptuous enough to think I can read a woman's mind and know what she wants. What I will do is defer to her first. "What do you think looks good?" or "Are you ready to order?"  
Me: The article also suggested going to company events with your man. 
David: Isn't that standard operating procedure once the relationship goes official? 
Me: And giving massages. 
Bryan: Naked massages? 
Me: That wasn't specified. 
Owen: Massages are nice if she's into it. But again, none of that is mandatory. I'd rather you give me one hour of companionable silence with a sandwich and the remote. Sometimes it's enough just to look over and see your lady sitting there with you. 
Bryan: Amen. 
David: About that giving a man full reign in bed concept.... isn't the point to be collaborative? 
Trey: I like how you kept that PG-13. 
Bryan: Yeah, I gotta say it's not a bad thing for the woman to take the reigns in mattress hockey from time to time. 
Owen: You're mixing your sports metaphors. 
Bryan: But you know what I mean. You have to keep it fresh, take turns, make a game out of it. Maybe a little role play- 
Me: Okay! We're good on that. So overall if you all had to give women advice on how to "appreciate a man" what would you tell her to do? 
Owen: Depends on the man. We're not all the same. Find out what matters to him and accommodate when you can. 
David: Just ask him. "How do you want to be treated?" Trust and believe, he'll have an answer. 
Trey: I'm of the Feed him, F**k him and let him get a nap mentality. It's really about that big piece of chicken.*
Bryan: And this is why you ain't got nobody, son. Listen, all those suggestions in the article were superficial. Treating a man like a man has nothing to do with massages and meatloaf. It's about letting your genuine respect and love for him show and acting on that. It shouldn't be a checklist like oh, this is what I gotta do for my man today. The other day Jazz (his wife) downloaded some music that I'd been talking about. The next time I was in the car, I plugged in the player and there it was. That was some thoughtful ish. 
David: I came home from a business trip overseas and found the house stocked with groceries and dinner ready to go into the microwave. I felt like a king. 
Owen: Jayme got those kids up and off to camp while I slept in. They'll be gone for three weeks. Now that's cause for gratitude. 
Trey: All ya'll braggin' azzes. Whatever. 
Me: And on that note.... thank you menfolk.
BougieLand, what say you? Ladies, how do let your man know he's appreciated? Gents, thoughts on the topic? What in all that is holy does "letting a man feel like a man" mean any damn way?!


*The "Big Piece of Chicken" references a Chris Rock joke. NSFW

172 comments:

kjnetic aka Peter Parker said...

the guys have it right...we (guys) aren't uniform, what we feel is 'appreciative' may be the same, but may be different. talk it out with us (just dont say 'we need to talk, lol). but if anything, common sense, respect, and admiration goes a long way.

CaliSlim said...

How these articles make it to print baffles me. I agree with Owen when he stated "Depends on the man. We're not all the same. Find out what matters to him and accommodate when you can."

I remember falling for the "don't come to bed looking like Aunt Jamima" theory and would leave the head  scarf off while at my guy's house. Turns out, he didn't give a rat's patootie what I wore on my head to bed as long as I was comfortable. For some other guys, it might be bothersome. So they key is to know YOUR man.

CaliSlim said...

Oh....and one other thing.... so in this post we learned Owen's wife is Jayme, Bryan's wife is Jazz... who might David's woman be? *whistles*

*now being run out Bougieland by folks with torches and pitchforks* LOL!

Jubilance said...

LOL...if folks can't put 2 & 2 together...

Jubilance said...

Standing ovation for the gentlemen, I cosign on all of this. In a relationship, mutual respect & admiration is key, and should be demonstrated via consideration & thoughtful behavior. Men and women are not monolithic groups, and so what one man likes another won't, which is why these stupid "how to" articles & books are so problematic.

Now...when are yall gon find Trey a woman? LOL

blackprofessor said...

Amen!!  Great job fellas and thanks for stating the obvious - pleasing a man is specific and unique to that individual man.  This is what needs to be on the NY Times Best Seller's list, not Steve Harvey and ilk!

Natasha Hunter said...

Terrific post! 

Jazzy Jazz said...

Great post!

CaliGirlED said...

The yellow bus is warmed up, ready to roll, with helmets and all! LOL

sol_dier said...

If a man does not feel like a man, ain't nothing I can do to make him feel it and I will definitely not be attracted to him


I give. As long as it is mutual, I give. : intimacy, shared emotions (joy and pain), respect, admiration, adventure, interests, laughter, pleasure, love, but most importantly I include you in my life. You become someone I think about, one who occupies my time & thoughts. 
I consider you. For me, that is the biggest thing I can ever do WITH a partner. I say 'with' because all of this has to be mutual or I can't do it

maureen palmer said...

*prints and post it on my fridge*  Thank you gentlemen for  the insight. You know they say it is  all about the small stuff.

CaliGirlED said...

Another great post! Guys you were awesome!

First and foremost, "A man is either a man or he isn't. If he's waiting on a woman to make him feel like one, there's a bigger problem underfoot."

And in conclusion, "Depends on the man. We're not all the same. Find out what matters to him and accommodate when you can."

Nuff said!!!

maureen palmer said...

NOW.THIS.HERE. is why we need Chele writing a show for VH1 . BnB folks I'm heading over there to the offices of VH1 to cause raucous. If you don't see me here, just know they put me on the next plane out to Kenya.

thinklikeRiley said...

Fellas... *fist bump*
We see you Bryan with the nekkid massages.

Grace said...

Does Owen have a brother? Does David? See where I'm going with this?

Brandon St.Randy said...

I haven't read the article but I've seen so many of them that I can pretty much guess the general content. The thing about it is that YOU may not be the audience these are intended for. The reality of the situation is that a looooot of black adults didn't grow up as children learning how to deal with the opposite sex via a functional two-parent household. There's a lot of dysfunction from both the male side and the female side. The reason you constantly see these articles geared toward women as opposed to men is that 1. Women actually read things that aren't technical manuals or associated with sports and 2. The skewed male/female ratio. While there are probably just as many men who don't know how to treat women as there are women who don't know how to treat men,  on average, men have the luxury of screwing it up a few more times than women.

Mykeia said...

"The overall vibe should be of mutual respect and admiration. Listen when I speak, act like I'm adding value to your world, be appreciative of things I do for you. I'll reciprocate. That stays with me longer than whether or not you scooped rice and chicken onto a plate for me."<=====THIS RIGHT HERE, DING, DING, DING AND CO-SIGN!
"That food ordering idea is a FAIL. People have allergies."<=====No longer safe for anyone to order food for me as I have developed some allergies--great point!
Listen, you have to find what works for the person on the other end...find out what love looks like to them.  For example, I married into a very touchy-feely-huggy family--these people hug a lot.  A lot.  I had to adjust and hugging is not a bad thing and this is what love looks and feels like in their family.
As far as propping my man up for propping sake...well he is very sure and confident in himself and who he is as a man that the occasional "I'm proud of you" "You do great things" "I love your ambition" seem to work just fine for him...bottom line as stated above in the posting, find out what works for your partner.
***That whole notion of pleasuring your partner while he's driving is crazy.  Safety belts.  I have been in too many accidents that were not my fault to be without a safety belt.

lawsoncomp said...

Bravo Menfolk!  That website article (and the content of the site generally) that everyone is alluding to is for entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously at all.  Unfortunately, there are some poor souls who will take notes and post the checklist on the bathroom mirror. 

Bryan Anthony said...

I'm not sure having a two parent household is necessary to know that cookie cutter articles like these are hardly worth the paper they are printed on. Also the assumption that men can continue to treat women poorly and there's an unending stream of willing females willing to forgive and forget is problematic. That's how guys end up with a shadow of the woman they really want.

Bryan Anthony said...

Just sayin'

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

That article sounds like a rehash of The Rules (remember that crap?). I had to read and review that book for my General Paper class back in high school, and I wanted to burn it partway into the first chapter when I read 'wear makeup even while jogging'. *side-eye*

I know relationships take work, but I refuse to believe that it's this complicated and difficult without partners bending themselves into pretzels just to (supposedly) make their S.O. feel loved and appreciated. =/

tishatweets said...

Well, I certainly have heard the "feed me, f*** me and be my friend" advice that Trey speaks of. I guess there's at least a *tainch* bit of truth to that--if you go beyond the surface of each of those things. But I believe the three things that make a romantic relationship work are the same three that make any relationship work--mutual respect, integrity, and great communication. Every other good thing in a relationship stems from those three basic components.

Beyond that, I've found that learning what makes YOUR man tick (I believe there are few cultural universals when it comes to men [or women, for that matter], despite what not-really-relationship gurus want us to believe)--and doing that often, is both fitting and best. Besides....when you really care for someone, anticipation of the smile on their face prompts you to want to do for them.  No "rules" necessary.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

"***That whole notion of pleasuring your partner while he's driving is
crazy.  Safety belts.  I have been in too many accidents that were not
my fault to be without a safety belt"

I read that at first and thought I misinterpreted it, because there is no way that suggestion is safe for either party.

tishatweets said...

So very true. If your manhood is defined by what I do or not do for you as a woman then you have many more pressing problems to address. Like...seriously. Handle that. LOL

GrownAzzMan said...

Well done fellas. Ladies, for the record, any article that starts How to...A Man is destined to be a fail. Everybody is on their own thing. Don't think what you did for Ramon is going to thrill me and vice versa. We are not complicated and will gladly tell you what we need if you are open to receive it.
There, I just put 10 women's mags out of business....

Jeannette said...

word!

AndreaPlaid said...

LaShaun Williams...LaShaun Williams...why do I know that name?

Wait. A. Cotton. Picking. Minute.

Isn't she the woman who wrote that post on why Black women should date White men that caused all kinds of controversy a while back?

http://madamenoire.com/22660/8-reasons-to-date-a-white-man-30188/

Yep. And she's back offering more half-assed advice? I'm glad and appreciate the fellas came back with some common sense, but I'm also thinking that this kind of advice just seems par of the course for her.

On this one...y'all call me when the new season of True Blood starts. ::whistles, files nails::
  

Penny said...

As other posters have said, we are all individuals, and everyone does not like the same thing.  As articulated by the "Board of Directors" in the post,  if you are coming from a place where mutual respect, mutual administration, understanding, and common courtesy are a given, finding out what is important to your partner should not be that difficult.  It is the willingness to find out what the other person wants, combined with the willingness to do those things that makes a successful relationship.  A woman (or a man) could be working very hard to give a man (or a woman) something, only to learn what was being given was not what was wanted.  A person has to ask, and the other person has to respond honestly and respectfully.  "Girl, you better hurry up with that chicken" probably won't get you very far."  :)

If your guy wants the big piece of chicken, give it to him.  If he wants a sandwich and an hour of silence, go with that.  However, reciprocity is key-this is not a one way street.

Brandon St.Randy said...

Perhaps, but given the never ending supply of these articles, I'm going to assume that someone's reading them. Per your second point, while that may be true, there are still men who feel they have more leeway given the numbers imbalance.

sol_dier said...

All the suggestions from the article sound like a collection of scenes from random  tv shows + a celeb sex tape or the lyrics to a song, something like this: 
Singing: If you chose me, I'm gon feed u, tease u & please u
I'll squeeze ya, need ya.. boy I'll freak ya
baby, I'd die for u, cry for u
If u leave, I'll lose my mind for youuuuuuu

lol 
(you guys know this crap would hit the charts if we released it aaaand some fool will begin to quote it)

tishatweets said...

Well look. Let me get on GarageBand and make us a track, then. LMBO! You are so for real right, though.

Sarah said...

I was laughing to myself all evening after reading your snark yesterday. Much appreciated.

My reaction to articles like the one that set you off is that they are patronizing. It is treating a man like he is a child to be managed. I think it is disrespectful. I'm happy to spoil somebody on occasion, but genuine spoiling isn't ego-boosting. It is an expression of exuberant joy at having that person in my life. 

CaliGirlED said...

Have you and the Mrs. written a playbook for that Mattress Hockey?

CaliGirlED said...

*steps up in line behind Grace*

Brandon St.Randy said...

Stats? Seriously? You can look up any statistical analysis of black families and find lower marriage rates and higher single parent households than in white households. That's awesome that you lived in a community like that. A lot of people didn't and don't get the same luxury.

On part 2, I tend to agree with you.

md_KG said...

BWAHAHA!!!

AndreaPlaid said...

All I can think of when I saw that is not all "pleasuring" is colored the same way, if you get my drift. (Rf: "Crash" with Thandie Newton and Terence Howard. That whole sequence with Matt Dillon....)

md_KG said...

Why you gotta hate on Ramon though? LOL.

md_KG said...

*get's in line right behind CaliGirlED*

CaliGirlED said...

 Oh my stars! Really???



Any of my Bougie Bruhs take offense to Brandon's notion that you all only read "technical manuals or materials associated with sports"?

Just wow!

CaliGirlED said...

"But I believe the three things that make a romantic relationship work
are the same three that make any relationship work--mutual respect,
integrity, and great communication." BINGO!!!

Tonda Williams said...

Sorry I'm of a different mindset. I own and LOVE being comfortable enough to say that I LOVE to feed, f&*k and take care of my man... IJS

CaliGirlED said...

OK! You might like what I did to Ramon!  LOL

CaliGirlED said...

Well according to Brandon below, us ladies need to read more of these articles, because then maybe we would have a man! LMAO...The last time he spoke up in BougieLand was a FAIL, at least he's consistent!

CaliGirlED said...

I see a #1 Hit in your future!

CaliGirlED said...

 "But if pumping you up is just propping you up, I have an issue." And this is why I am not an "ego-stoker". I like the small things, notes and thoughtful gestures, like Bryan mentioned. However at the appropriate time and for the appropriate reason, I will throw on my cheerleader uniform, grab my pom-poms and turn cart wheels for my man. Yes indeed!!!

Muriel Isaac said...

Emerging from the shadows of lurkdom to wholeheartedly cosign this statement...thank you!

tishatweets said...

Do you do this out of love, respect, and admiration though or out of obligation? I think the difference between the two is where many women (and even some men) find fault.

tishatweets said...

"There, I just put 10 women's mags out of business..."

iHollered.

That's soooo true though. In so many ways.

Brandon St.Randy said...

Wait, this Brandon said that? Please point out where I said anything of the sort

rozb said...

Ego stroking means nothing if it becomes mechanical and forced, or expected. I will compliment my man for the extraordinary things he does for me. For the every day ordinary things - a smile and a pinch on the azz does wonders. Every. Time.

As far as being confident and assured, sometimes we all need that ego boost to get going. But it gets tiresome and old real fast if you have to constantly let him know he is awesome and can conquer the world. Just like he doesn't have to tell me 25 million times my butt looks good in certain jeans, I don't need to keep telling him he is the man - he knows how I feel because I done already told him so!

As far as "pleasuring" somebody while they're driving - how will you explain your face, head, and neck injuries if he crashes and the air bag goes off? Not a good look...take your butt and go parking some damn where...

rozb said...

Yay team!

Cocoa Winston said...

We get it. You love love and submitting and all of that. No one said there was anything wrong with that if that's how both of you get down. But not everybody rolls like that. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with being comfortable enough to give you man everything he asks for. It has to do with how you want to conduct yourself in the relationship. If the 3F (feed, f***, friend) works for you, so be it.

Donell Creech said...

we're all taught the golden rule - do unto others as we want done unto us. 

i believe we'd all be better served if we were taught the platinum rule - do unto others as *they* wish to be done unto *them*. 

others here have said it - and @facebook-583358430:disqus just punctuated, we're all - all 6.9 beelion of us - different individuals with a unique combination of preferences and personalities. 

the real key to *any* relationship is learning what makes the other person feel loved/appreciated/understood/heard and doing those things...often and repeatedly. (no - i am not a professional therapist...but i did recently stay at a holiday inn.)

in regards to the original article - keep in mind that the *primary* goal of all media content is to sell advertising. to attract advertisers, media companies have to retain high numbers of viewers, readers, subscribers, clicks etc. and the easiest way they do that is by publishing/broadcasting dumbed-down polarizing content that focuses only on the extreme angle of a particular topic. in that regards - this original article was extremely successful bc here we all are filling up the blogosphere talking about that article. 

the best book ive read as it relates to the platinum rule concept http://www.5lovelanguages.com. it focuses on love relationships, but the overall message of making the effort to find out what makes an individual feel appreciated can be universally applied to all types of relationships.

kjnetic aka Peter Parker said...

 *puts down Sports Illustrated*

wha happened now?

jake said...

Does this mean I can't have the naked massage? Or the car lollipop thing?

Page Bartlett said...

*Jumps up to praise dance*
Yesterday's snark was GENIUS!
And this is the best answer. Wanna know how to please your man? ASK HIM!

md_KG said...

Ya know? LOL

Brandon St.Randy said...

*Seth Myers voice* "Really? Really?"You're trying to take me to task for engaging in a little male self mockery? Why so serious?

Penny said...

You captured it.  There is a major difference in doing something out of love, respect and admiration and doing something out of obligation.   Sometimes people don't realize  that the former can turn into the latter, until its too late.  It is not the same. 

JohnKinPDX said...

There are a few sites and magazines that try and put together this sorta "color by numbers" relationship advice for men, we ignore it for the most part.

Someone made a point below in the comments about ad space. True this crap sells. Whether the article was effective in selling is not the issue. The issue is how many women read that and think that if they do 1 through 8 it's all good. There was an inherent lack of insight and forethought with that slapped together list. I can see why it ticked you off. 

Trudy said...

The best part was downloading the music and having it in the car. That's thoughtful without restraint of gender role. Just genuine kindness, respect and cohesion instead of "acting out gender" seems to make sense to me.

I've never heard a conversation like this with men. I guess the ones running their mouths with the stereotypical garbage like that article are single (and not by choice, as by choice is OK) and giving out dating advice via sexist tweets on Twitter that always start with "LADIES:" Hahaha.

Great post...very interesting to hear these men's views as they sound like actual adults.

Bryan Anthony said...

We may or may not have an instructional video.

Bryan Anthony said...

So this is my first trip into Bougieland. This is wild. You serious deep dive into a topic and rumble, huh?
*nods*
I'll be back.

OneChele said...

All of the guys are mid-thirties and above so not saying age brings maturity but it doesn't hurt.

LikeLena said...

I'm trying to get like Jayme and Owen. Now those are people I would take actually relationship advice from. Thanks Chele for coming at this from a much needed perspective.

Mykeia said...

THANK YOU!

JaymeC said...

Thank you but believe me it wasn't all rose petals and hot cocoa. At some you have to mutually make the decision that this is the person you're going to be with and the two or you are going to work to make each other happy if it kills you. Thankfully, it's not always hard.

blackprofessor said...

Calling next after md_KG!!

Mykeia said...

"Besides....when you really care for someone, anticipation of the smile on their face prompts you to want to do for them."  Nicely put. :-)

Mykeia said...

Dead at Ramon.

FreeBlackMan said...

I would take this the other way. I think women use some these "ego" stroking tactics as a way to manipulate and control their man. That's more of an issue that whether some woman is dropping down in the front seat but why? There's always an ulterior motive.

Andrea M said...

Everytime I want to give up on men, Chele spotlights some decent ones. Dammit, now I have to be optimistic about it again!

tishatweets said...

Except for....who wants a man they can "control?" #failuresinlife

Man's World said...

Damn son - who pissed in your koolaid and called it lemonade?

Man's World said...

We do tend to dissect the hell out of a topic. So much so that Chele tells people - if you don' want to know the truth, don't ask the question. We serve it up straight no chaser.

Man's World said...

Focus-driven agenda comment.

tishatweets said...

Thiiiiiiiiis! THIS!

I find that we are far too often led by how we feel rather than by what is right. Additionally, you aren't always going to FEEL like doing x,y, and z in your marriage. This is why it is SO.IMPORTANT. that you ARE, then, led by the DECISION that you made--which is to stay together despite the BS (while allowing for the fact that there are indeed and should forever remain absolute dealbreakers) and how you might feel at any given moment.

blackprofessor said...

Cosign!! The 5 Love languages is a must read!

Man's World said...

Get a 15 y/o white chick to sing/rap it in a plaid miniskirt and you're gold. Make that platinum. :-/

Pure Choco said...

So what you're saying is women only stroke you when they want something.
Sounds like a personal problem. Flipping a Katt Williams' quote around, if all you meet are manipulative maneaters, you need to find out what is it above you that attracts them?

Trey Charles said...

BOOM! Did you two use to date and it ended badly?

Trey Charles said...

*crosses arms* We'll see.

Trey Charles said...

Thank you, Tisha. A brother was trying to make a point.

AndreaPlaid said...

::church-pinches jake::

jake said...

My bad. *sits in corner*

David Chase said...

David only has sisters. I have a cousin who could use a good woman. If you're up for a challenge... :)

David Chase said...

O__O

OneChele said...

Welcome out of Lurkerville ;-)

Natasha Hunter said...

Best advice ever. Everything else is just jibber-jabber IMO.

Muriel Isaac said...

Thank you kindly, Ms. Chele! 

Natasha Hunter said...

Ugh... enter the perenially suspicious brotha...


Ladies with an ounce of creativity and a spontaneous streak HEAD FOR THE HILLS!  LOL

David Chase said...

Believe me, we are working on it. But someone is picky.

David Chase said...

Ya'll ain't right.

Nadette said...

I've got nothing to say but smile. This just came to me at time of particular salience. Amen.

Trey Charles said...

Easy for someone to say when they are dating  a chick we nicknamed "Wonder Woman" - why I gotta be stuck with Bat Girl ? #saltytweet

Jubilance said...

Why you so picky? Are you the guy who wrote that letter about wanting perfection in a woman?

Mykeia said...

Sooooo...re-reading this...did not mean to imply that I partake in such foolishness.

Trey Charles said...

I'm going with that "I'll know it when I see it" flow

CaliGirlED said...

Well shut my mouth!

Mykeia said...

Sooo...after re-reading this I think that I have to clarify that I did not participate in such foolishness.  Safety first.

CaliGirlED said...

Pump the brakes! Now that is not how you are going to find your cousin a good woman.  Or at least be specific, mental challenge, emotional, physical...what kind of challenges are you talking about? LOL

Mykeia said...

Co-sign.

Natasha Hunter said...

I thought you were Robin?

Tonda Williams said...

DEAD @ "serious deep dive into a topic and rumble, huh?"

Tonda Williams said...

"I" do this out of love, respect and admiration. I ALSO make a very conscious choice about the man I CHOOSE to love. I do not nor have I ever believed in FALLING in love. I walk in with as clear a view of my S/O as possible (flaws & all).  It works and has worked for me. I have ended relationships with as much love, admiration and respect as I began with. 
Thank you SO MUCH for recognizing and respecting my right to be different.

C Nelson said...

I went and read that article, and now I'm stuck on the "trip to church" bit. Because that's just the way to make yourself, err .. popular ... in your church home: show up smiling and the pastor, the deacons, and all the elders with your guy's short and curlies stuck between your teeth and that ... particular fragrance ... on your breath when you open your mouth to sing hymns. That's if you make it to church, and that destination doesn't morph into a hospital while you're en route... pull over if you're gonna play that game!

Tonda Williams said...

It works for me. I respect, without judgement your right to conduct yourself in any manner you choose. I hope and pray that you respect mine....I am neither looking for nor do I need ANYONE'S approval.  I shared my personal preference as Chele asked.. NEXT!

bashowell said...

"show up smiling and the pastor, the deacons, and all the elders with your guy's short and curlies stuck between your teeth"
*dead* BYE!

C Nelson said...

If you ask the man ... he's gonna tell you.  ;)  I'm relatively new and I knew that already! *grins.*

William Martin said...

Once again, the graphic is FTW.
After Owen said A man is either a man or he isn't. If he's waiting on a woman to make him feel like one, there's a bigger problem underfoot. that said it all for me.

Angel Blanca said...

This post and all of the comments are the reason why I truly appreciate all the men and women who inhabit BougieLand.  We can sum  up most relationship advice in popular media (let's not even broach the subject of  those Twitter folk who've christened themselves experts on women) as: This is what works FOR ME!  Unless you've done research on the matter, and I don't mean polling your 10 favorite, most like you friends, you can only provide information on what works FOR YOU.  Do some scholarly research and I *might* be inclined to review it, but those "Do This..." or "X Steps to ..." posts are worth no more than the paper on which they're printed.

I'm an individual.  I approach the men with whom I'm involved as individuals.  What may seem to be appropriate with one, is definitely not the right approach with another, but all of these things must be emerge organically when we get to know each other.  There are some things that I just don't enjoy, but when the right person is involved, it's great.  I don't think I'm alone in this either--whether we're talking men or women.

Thus ends my rant.

bashowell said...

Nothing to add (on hiatus and whatnot) but y'all are killing me w/the comments.  LMAO!

Tonda Williams said...

OMG.. Imma have to be your BFF after all....roflol. 5 Love Languages is at the top of my relationship reading list.

LOVE THIS^^

CaliGirlED said...

First impressions are a doozie. *shrugs*

CaliGirlED said...

 Oh, must be overflow from the comment you made a little while ago. Something to the effect of women ask what it takes to get a man and then when we tell you you don't want to hear it. (Not quoting you word for word.)

CaliGirlED said...

Glad to see you got your day pass! Hope you can come back!

OwenCinDallas said...

There's plenty of roses and cocoa, woman.

CaliGirlED said...

If a woman is only stirring cocoa to manipulate and control a man, either she doesn't like cocoa stirring or his cocoa  is just blah.  I know very few women who don't enjoy good cocoa (especially the "special recipes" with extra toppings) and therefore the manipulative part, or shall we say persuasive part,  is more of an indirect benefit.

Earthangel172 said...

FLATLINE____________________________

MochaMuffin said...

I love when she does Ask a Bougie Man. (this is what I call it in my head)

Jesse said...

I can't say I've ever worried about motive at that particular moment. You can always just say no.
*looks confused*

Bunni said...

5 Love Languages is the BEST! 

Donell Creech said...

apparently the universe is co-signing on 5 love languages. 2 hours after i posted my message, i recd the ezine from succes magazine - and it featured the book! 

You've heard the bad news: Almost 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce. But there is good news. Success in marriage, as in the rest of life, has little to do with statistics about what’s going on out there and everything to do with what’s going on in your life and in your home. The reality is it doesn’t matter what the polls report. The determining factors in your marital success are personal.“Even though divorce is prevalent in our culture today, we don’t want to just walk out,” says relationship expert Gary Chapman. “There is a deep, deep bonding unique to the marriage relationship—a physical and emotional bond. And because of that, we want to make it work despite our differences.”http://tinyurl.com/3dc9ngz

OneChele said...

If you get a chance to go to the seminar, it's great. Workshops and workbooks and exercises that really have you considering your role in the whole relationship aspect of your life.

CaliGirlED said...

I see you Mr. C! LOL

CaliGirlED said...

 Please tell me the lady who wrote that article did not say to give your man head while driving to church! *looks for the holy water*

Mykeia said...

"show up smiling and the pastor, the deacons, and all the elders with your guy's short and curlies stuck between your teeth"<=========DEAD AT WORK!  DEAD! Someone notify my husband because he is about to collect the insurance money!

OneChele said...

Ha! One way to look at it.

C Nelson said...

Tip #6, I swear 'fore God:

Men love oral sex, especially when it’s uninhibited and spontaneous.
Unzip his pants while he’s driving and make that trip to church a little
more exciting.


I know where she's going, and somebody should cool her down now before she gets there; it'll be plenty warm for her later.

Alvin Milton said...

Wonder if the article was written by a woman who works for a rag like Cosmo...
I just got through telling one of my female friends to ask a man or men about how to deal with men and vice versa men should ask women about women.Some things you might not want to hear  but overall, if they say what they like, then they know what they like... and thats all there is to it.

Brandon St.Randy said...

I wanna say that was something else. I don't recall ever making a comment like that.

Leon X said...

The post could have ended right there and I would have been OK with that.

CaliGirlED said...

"Don't Ask My Neighbor" by the Emotions comes to mind.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Flipped through the wife's Cosmo the other day. My head was spinning. That's a whole lotta shiggity crammed into a glossy ad book

Mr. Skyywalker said...

My man.

sol_dier said...

lol. Caligirl. I ccan see you lacing up your running shoes and you haven't even been introduced yet lol. No country for challenging dudes?

sol_dier said...

YES. STATS kindly provide them please. You made the statement. erm yeah prove it.

I'd like for once, all the people who keep singing this him to provide the evidence. 
Thank you kindly.

sol_dier said...

considering I'm a girl and a techie. I'd like to point ou that I have not met ANY man who reads technical manuals. 

The men I have worked with and had in my home have always liked to 'figure it out' for themselves.  Sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't 'shrugs'

Brandon seems to be singing from the 'stereotype generalisation without much backup' playbook

sol_dier said...

If the man didn't have an over inflated ego or sense of self 
He would be manipulated by those things...

Duh!

Brandon St.Randy said...

Actually, yes. That was the point. It was a clear play on generalized stereotypes. Kind of like talking about men loving beer and bacon. That's really keen of you to pick up on that. kudos.

Mykeia said...

This is why I read men's magazines, they get right to the point.

Brandon St.Randy said...

"And that's when the other boy chimed in, speaking as if the words left a
nasty taste in his mouth: "Marriage is for white people."


He's right. At least statistically. The marriage rate for African
Americans has been dropping since the 1960s, and today, we have the
lowest marriage rate of any racial group in the United States. In 2001,
according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent
of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4
percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites. African American women
are the least likely in our society to marry. In the period between
1970 and 2001, the overall marriage rate in the United States declined
by 17 percent; but for blacks, it fell by 34 percent. Such statistics
have caused Howard University relationship therapist Audrey Chapman to
point out that African Americans are the most uncoupled people in the
country."

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500029.html

People don't make up this stuff because it's a fun rhetorical trick. It's a serious concern for black communities and affects everything from educational achievement to youth behavior problems to yes, relationships. And despite the fact that I've become the villain of this thread (I made my own bed, I'm ok with it) this isn't an attack on single parents or children of single parents. Nor is it a wide-ranging claim that all kids with two parents are more functional than single parent kids. It's just a realization that this trend is a concern.

tiffanyinhouston said...

It's so WRONG, but oh so RIGHT!!!!

tiffanyinhouston said...

When you are with a man that you admire, respect and trust to put your best interests at heart, you uplift and honor him without a second thought. It hasn't always been like that for me but I'm glad it's like that now.

CaliGirlED said...

 Soldier I have paid my dues! I'm cool! LOL

CaliGirlED said...

Mayhaps I have you mixed up with someone else, my bad if so. But you said something that raised a flag. Anywho...

Trudy said...

True...doesn't hurt at all. 

sol_dier said...

Brandon, it wasn't necessary. 
you have a post where the women are praising men for being stand up dudes and pointing out that ' A man is a man is a man until he stops being one by his own virtue.

It just seemed strange that you would harken back to stereotypes of men to prove your point. 
It just seemed u were arguing a point no one was making any way. 

thanks for the backhanded compliment though :) I take even those with a smile :D 

sol_dier said...

Really?. Gosh I didn't think a 15yr old would sell it. (*takes notes*) 
It's the kinda thing I thought you'd want to hear from Keisha Cole & Fantasia. 

Learning new things e'ryday

C Nelson said...

You can't blame her, though! Even for men, there comes a time when they've got to leave the kit cars and the weekend fixer-ups to the teens. Women just ... reach that point a little faster. Especially when they remember they might have to raise the project boy's offspring, too. Realising you'll need a break in between the grown-up kit car and the 18-year commitment to the former kit car's kid is just self-preservation.  ;)

sol_dier said...

Brandon, 
I wish you and every person who quoted this 'data' actually read the data itself in FULL context, before dispelling it as gospel. Anyway, what you are doing is ridic. its such a massive derail from the entire post but I'm going to post some things you might want to consider from the ORIGINAL source.

1) CDC Source : http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_028.pdf  DATE : 2002
Pay attention to the section on Data and methods2) Sample size of data : Women = 7,643. Men 4, 928 Age range - 15 - 44 (no breakdown by race)3) While marriage has been decreasing,  UN-married co-habiting  has been increasing.4) 40 page document, You isolate 1/4 of a page to make a point? 5) you a villan? if you say so.  Can't make you a man, can't make you a villan. Simply rebutting  the points.P.S.* The full quote is :  For years I wondered why not, and some 12 year-olds enlightened me, "marriage is for white people"** What 'white people' are doing and comparing their state of affairs with that of African Americans is ridiculous.
*** Lets stop being sheep. Read the data yourself. Don't just parrot what someone else is saying. Read it, understand it and its flaws in context.

CorettaJG said...

"The overall vibe should be of mutual respect and admiration. Listen when I speak, act like I'm adding value to your world, be appreciative of things I do for you. I'll reciprocate. That stays with me longer than whether or not you scooped rice and chicken onto a plate for me."  THIS by David.

CorettaJG said...

Here, here!!

CorettaJG said...

*chuckling*

Brandon St.Randy said...

Ok, you scream for stats. I give you stats. Because you don't like those stats, you present other stats. This isn't an academic pissing contest, this is an opinion blog. Almost every sociologist working on black issues is concerned about the rate of formation of two parent households, the prevalence of very young single mothers, and the role of marriage. In general conversation, its something people talk about and worry about. Now, if it's not something you think is in anyway relevant to the black experience, then that's your opinion, but it's a minority opinion.

Brandon St.Randy said...

To me, that "stereotypical" comment was so innocuous that it doesn't even deserve a second thought. If you don't get sarcasm, you don't get sarcasm, I suppose. There's nothing wrong with having a sense of humor about ourselves.

sol_dier said...

Calm down. I used the same source.

You source : Washington post op-ed articleYour source's source : CDC 

I simply skipped the middle man and went to the root and actually ready the document. 
Not to worry though :) 
You are right... on everything. Have a great day

Brandon St.Randy said...

I quoted that particular article because it gives context. Raw statistics are only valuable inasmuch as they can be used to explain trends or phenomena. My interpretation of the data (as well as what people in that field are saying, and what I see in personal experience)  is that there may be a correlation between the decrease in #'s of two parent households and the relationship dysfunctions of children of those relationships. I may not be right, but you seem to be insistent on proving that there may be flawed methodology to the underlying data as opposed to a legitimate alternative narrative.

tishatweets said...

Lol! I see you! :)

tishatweets said...

And know it you will. :)

NitaAppleBaum said...

*peers from shadows of the dark dungeon in Lurkerville*

 ***grabs mike***

Its refreshing to see such a diverse board of perspective.I really enjoy the positive,mature,realistic and hilarious banter from both ladies and gentlemen on here.I float through a few sites but let me say in bougiest voice that I ABSOLUTELY  love this one.I may be young(early 20's..Yes there is a stench of Similac floating through the comment board now),but I know a great blog when I see one.God Bless..

*kicks off shoes because I'm comfortable now*

sol_dier said...

I missed Owen's quote earlier. This is how I know I'm ready to move most relationships to a diff level (including friendships). If I can spend time with a person in companionable silence ... ohh we are definitely on a level.

Owen: Massages are nice if she's into it. But again, none of that is mandatory. I'd rather you give me one hour of companionable silence with a sandwich and the remote

Evansaw said...

And that statement should be the the ultimate answer to this question. The 1950's ended a long time ago.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

I went on that site, did the Singles quiz and got a spanking 11 for Quality Time. Followed by 9 for Acts of Service, 4 for both Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation, and a widdle 2 for Receiving Gifts.

Now I want to get the book - even though I am no where near ready for marriage. I suppose it doesn't hurt to read it either way.

Donell Creech said...

note to lyc's future husband: plan regular movie nights on the couch - along with helping out with household tasks - and you aint gone have noooooo prollems outta lyc! bada bing. bada boom. :-)

A Word or Three said...

Great post! This is my first time here, and reading the conversation kind of reminds of me the conversations included in Hill Harper's books.

Most women naturally do things to make their man feel like a man. We're just wired like that. (I blogged about this! (http://www.awordorthree.com/2011/01/women-are-chivalrous-too.html)

Does a man really feel like a man if a woman does these things on some kind of autopilot or because she read an article? I don't know how that would work out. If it doesn't come naturally to you to give your man  a massage after he's had a long day, then... I don't know... doing it when you force yourself to remember seems a bit ingenuous.

Brandon St.Randy said...

Thanks for sharing the UM source and the authors you mentioned. definitely provides more context

maureen said...

Inquiring minds want to know....

sol_dier said...

erm nope. 
Please provide stats on these loooot of black adults. (where I grew up, 2 parents + grandfolks+ aunties & uncles & neighbours raised you.. and I'm black as they come)
If your folks died, the neighbours took you in and beat your butt like you were their own.

The reason articles are geared towards women is because we live in a society which largely places the burden of a failed relationship on what women are perceived to lack. 

michaeldavis said...

remember, some scarves are cuter than others. Just sayin :)

Roselyn said...

De-lurking because I found this particular thread interesting and felt that I had something to offer. 

On the one hand, national data indicates that Black Americans do have lower rates of marriage than other racial groups. Approximately 47% of Black Americans reported being never married compared to a national average of about 31%. This means that more than 60% of Blacks are either currently married, separated, widowed, or divorced while its more like 70% for the nation as a whole.  (source: Table S120.1 Marital Status from the 2005-2009 American Community Survey 5-Year Estimates. The ACS is run by the US Census Bureau and provides in-depth yearly demographic statistics about the nation that the regular once-a-decade census no longer covers.)

 My personal go-to on social science research on Black people in the U.S. is the Program for Research on Black Americans at the University of Michigan. I know they've produced the volume Family Life in Black America but I'm not familiar with it at that's not my area of interest in sociology. Other works that look at this dynamic include The Decline in Marriage Among African Americans edited  by M. Belinda Tucker and Claudia Mitchell-Kernan. What I like about the Tucker and Mitchell-Kernan piece is that it questions the line of reasoning that decline in marriage rates equals crises in Black families. The authors argue that while this has been the primary paradigm that social scientists have used in research on Black families it a) doesn't recognize the myriad of structural causes (i.e. political and economic) that precede marriage rates and b) ignores alternative family structures common in Black communities. Specifically there's little acknowledgment of extended kin networks, fictive kin (e.g. 'play cousins'), or community values that encourage all adults to feel some social responsibility for all youth regardless of biological connection.  

I guess I come down somewhere in the middle of Brandon and sol_dier, yeah marriage rates are declining, but what that means depends on whether you believe (implicitly heterosexual) married, two-parent households are necessary (or preferred) for the healthy development of kids and the stability of neighborhoods. I think, other kinds of families can and do meet those goals so marriage rates aren't that important to me.

Um...sorry for the dissertation pretending to be a comment. This did give me an idea for an article though, so thanks for bearing with me!

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