Tuesday, April 26, 2011

Ask a Bougie Chick: I didn't get married for this!


We're on day two of Ask a Bougie Chick week. I know we just discussed open relationships but here's an interesting conundrum. Today we have a gent that I'll call AB06 writing in over a discussion with his wife that is distressing him...
Hello OneChele,
I am sending you this email after reading your post about "Open Relationships".  I am a married man (6 years).  My wife and I dated for 3.5 years before we got married. We are both college graduates with Post graduate Degrees, professionals, mid 30's (38).  If you have a few minutes, I want to share my story, but also get your thoughts.  Right now, I am completely lost.
We started out as friends, dating exclusively, having a love connection and waited 5 months before we got intimate with each other. I stressed this because I knew once we got intimate, our relationship would move to the next level. Underneath our personalities, we are both were very sexual, she felt she was probably more experimental and adventurous than me (LOL), but we would talk about sex and our past experiences, etc. 
Fast forward to now, after being married and having 2 kids, the topic of Open Relationships was discussed one night while we were up watching the "Monique" Show. This prompted her to start doing research. My wife wanted to get my view/thoughts of having that kind of relationship. My initial reaction was "No", I didn't get married to you to be with other people, why is this coming up now, etc. My wife's response to me was she felt I was not being "sensual" enough with her and that although she feels I am good sexually with her, I may not be enough for her. She said maybe if I had another relationship with a woman, that I could learn something and possibly enhance our relationship. At this point was still in shock and still "No". She said "If I ever cheated" it wasn't a deal breaker for her, because of our foundation in our relationship. Which is why she thought an open relationship might work. 
Her position is that no species or human being on earth can be monogamous.  People have connections with people everyday (not sexual, but could be), so why block that human connection / experience.  I felt her for a sec, but I told her, Men and Women see people periodically and think in their mind a connection, vibe, or sexual thought, but doesn't mean people should act on it if they are in a relationship. If I was single, it would be different, but I am not.   
The topic ended there, but I brought it up again after 2 weeks of thinking about it. During this period, I was not only dealing with this but also the passing of my mother. With all of this, I just broke down one night on my own about everything.  My thinking was that I couldn't believe my wife brought this up as a topic in to our marriage. We have 2 little kids (3 and 1).  I told her at this point, that I am not interested in having an "Open Relationship." She stated that was fine, but she wants to discuss this more in the future.  I told her that if it's something she really wants to pursue, than we will need to discuss a "Divorce". 
She was shocked and got very emotional, because she later explained that she didn't see anything wrong with it. Her past relationships while she was dating except 1, were all open relationships (I didn't know this and she never put things in these terms when we were dating and talking about our past experiences.  My past relationships as I explained to her were monogamous.  So I concluded here is the root to this problem.)  
I have heard her rationale and I could see how people have these types of relationships.  But in my mind, I just think it's not right and could potentially involve too many feelings and emotions.  Thoughts?  
~AB06
This is terrible but my first thought is that she wants to "stir cocoa" with someone else and wants permission to do it. Maybe there is some out of the box thing she wants to do sexually but if that's the case she needs to teach you how to do it before seeking that thrill elsewhere. 

I was having a similar discussion with some people the other day (both married and single) and one thing we all agreed about is that if one person changes the structural dynamic of a marriage without complete buy in from the spouse - it's a slippery downhill slope from there. If you don't want to share, that should be that. 

I'm also giving her a little bit of a side-eye for just now disclosing that she prefers open relationships. I think she didn't tell you earlier because she knew you wouldn't go for it and she wanted the ring. Now two kids in, she thought she'd put it out there and see what you had to say. I would suggest some counseling. Just because she said she's going to back burner the discussion, doesn't mean she won't act on it. I don't know your wife but if you were troubled enough to write in, you have your doubts. Have someone help you talk it through. The sooner the better.

BougieLand, what do you think? What would you do in AB06's place? Have you ever been in a relationship when someone completely changed the rules on you? Thoughts, comments, insights?

103 comments:

David Parrish, Jr.(Inkognegro) said...

They have no future.

He is a monogamist. She is not.

We can harrumph all we like about the fact that she mighta shoulda told him before...but she didn't.

She found a good guy and thought she could evolve into the kind of woman he needed.

It didn't happen. It almost never does.



At least she womaned up and came to him up front. Small Consolation....but consolation nonetheless.

Either he is in or he is out...


And He is out. Maybe not today...maybe not tomorrow...but he.IS.OUT.





Kinda sad if you ask me. But sadder if she would have run out there on the sly and not told him.

Nicole said...

IThe possibility exists that she could be stirring the cocoa plus getting some marshmallows on top with someone else already and she wants him to cosign it anyway. If he stays, we have suspicious black man (assuming he is black), If he leaves, he will be angry,bitter black man. In both cases he and she should get some counselling and figure out what the HELL is going on, if only for the sake of the two kids.

maureen palmer said...

AB06, you two are on a diverging path. Like Chele said, ask her what she is expecting of/from you to meet her sexual needs and also seek help from a therapist.
With that said though, I think u might need never meet her at her needs and sometime it helps let go as hard and hurtful as it might be.

Leon X said...

I think the song "Buttercup" is apropos here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv85EIMgJVA

CaliGirlED said...

I agree with you except I feel that 1) she did not come to him up front (he's just now finding out that she's always had "open relationships"); and 2) she has run out there on the sly and now she's back tracking to get the OK from him.

She feels very passionate about this and it is part of her past. The discussion maybe on the back burner, but ol' girl's cocoa has already been dipped by another stirrer.

CaliSlim said...

What the heck?! *furious side eye at the wife*

Chick, please sit down. You can't get married, recite vows to forsake all others, and then change up the rules 6 years in!

She definitely wants permission to cheat...we'll folks in hell want ice water! She should have "spoke now" 6 years ago...it's time to forever hold her peace!

I guess she thought she'd get all the freaky deaky sex she wanted, and clearly she's not. I'd advice AB06 to discuss how far he IS willing to go without compromising his own standards. If it's not much farther than what he's doing now...decision time for them both.

CaliGirlED said...

AB06 my heart goes out to you because you are in a tough spot. IMHO your wife's desire to have an open relationship is not going to change. If she has not already stepped out of your marriage, she will do so. She purposely did not tell you about her past "open relationships" because she knew you were not that kind of man. Now that she feels you guys have established a solid family, she's bringing this up to you because she knows you will not want to break that up, and therefore may at least try it. Thereby giving her permission to do what it is she may already be doing. Counseling and prayer are definitely needed!

Now this hurts, but I suggest you make sure those are your children. Even if you vow to continue to love them and be their dad anyway, for medical reasons you need to know if you are their biological father. And at the appropriate age, you can tell them the truth...I have a half brother who did not find out until he was in his mid 20's that the man he thought was his was not after being in a bad accident and needing blood. That's a horrible way to find out but his mother made the decision, and my father did not put up a fight, to let her new husband be his "real dad", last name and all. Over 14 years later and he's still messed up over not knowing the truth.

Again counseling and prayer!!!

rozb said...

AB06 -

The fact that she is throwing research at you (probably with charts and graphs), and using emotional blackmail (you're not sensual enough) means she is trying to manipulate you into what feels like a mistake to you.

I wouldn't necessarily call this abuse, but I will call this - well - SHIGGITY! If it was just about sensual feelings and exploring more things sexually, she could address this with her partner (you) and try to make things happen within the borders of a monogamous relationship, like - say - a marriage.

Like others here, I think she is, at the very least, humping some other guy's leg, and wants to make you complicit in her infidelity. How cool for her if she can bounce on another dude (or dudette), and come back, only to throw in your face that you agreed to it, and that you did it too if you raise any objections. She doesn't want to leave the happy home and all you have acquired together, and she still wants to play Mommy on the regular.

You know it is going to hurt your feelings, mess with your marriage, and degrade the household, so don't give in. Suggest marital counseling, and if she balks, you will have your answer. She needs to respect your stance on this, and this isn't like some decisions, such as she wanting to get a new car and you saying no. If it weren't for having children involved I would say just run! Get out and turn left at the lantern and do not look back!

In conclusion, she sounds immature, selfish, and cruel. I hope you can work out a conclusion that does not cause you to have to compromise everything you worked for. Oh yeah - your wife needs to grow up and put her life in perspective. And if she wants to live the life of a swinger, then you must decide to do what is best for you and your children - this is the same advice I would tell a woman.

Only The Tall said...

"I have heard her rationale and I could see how people have these types of relationships. But in my mind, I just think it's not right and could potentially involve too many feelings and emotions."

Sir, I really feel for you, but you are who you are and she is who she is. This is not going to change. 6 years and two kids later, your wife wants to suggest something like this? She sounds unbelievably selfish and you need to divorce, period. Continue to be a father to your children, co-parent with her and let her run the streets doing the freaky-deaky and you find someone who has the same values as you. This is an open and shut case.

blackprofessor said...

Amen, amen and amen!

Mony_Mony said...

AB06, I feel for you, having to go through this while also dealing with the death of your mother. I had the exact same thought as Chele when I read this. Either she's already stirring the cocoa with someone else or planning to do so in the near future. She knew exactly what she was doing when she "neglected" to tell you about her past relationships. I'd definitely suggest seeking counseling, but unfortunately I don't think she wants anything other than permission to stray. Also, if there's any way you can talk to a lawyer without her finding out, I'd get a consultation to determine and then start doing everything you can to protect yourself (assets, child custody, etc) in case of divorce.

rozb said...

Girl, I just connected with a half-brother not too long ago, who is at an age to have been conceived while my father was still married to my mother! The truth should be told as early as possible with as much tact as possible.

Like George Wilborn said: "Take your kid and RUN to the DNA spot. Swab your mouth. And swab your baby's mouth."

happinessisme said...

Whoa, I think people are jumping the gun. "I suggest you make sure those are your children." Huh? Yeah, she should have told you that she was interested in open relationships but, did you ever ask? Was that something that was ever discussed? I've never been married but isn't marriage supposed to be about honesty? She's being honest now you guys have to figure out if you are indeed on the same page. It sounds like your not and if not then perhaps some tough decisions need to be made from here.

SingLikeSassy said...

I have no advice to offer as I am getting divorced because cheating and open marriages are not for me. I hope you two can find a solution that will make you both happy. Good luck.

CaliGirlED said...

The sad part is that I always knew about him, he's younger than me but my parents hadn't yet married. I would always bug my dad about seeing my brother, but he nor my mother told me that my brother had been adopted by that other man. When I finally did meet him (in 1996) it was about a year after he found out the truth, and a friend of his found letters that I had written to his mom. He looks like and has manerisms like my father and little brother. It really hurts that the adults in our lives made such poor decisions and because of them we were not able to grow up together. I have a nephew and two or three nieces that I will probably never know.

CaliGirl down!

CaliGirlED said...

"I'd get a consultation to determine and then start doing everything you can to protect yourself (assets, child custody, etc) in case of divorce."...I totally agree. (I'm not saying divorce your wife, that's a personal decision, but prepare yourself JUST IN CASE.)

CaliGirlED said...

If she has cheated on him, and it is possible because this is the lifestyle she prefers, then yes he should make sure. She may have stayed true to her vows while she battled this internally, but he does not know that for a fact. I understand you thinking there may be some "gun jumping" here. But until you've had the devastation and aftermath of not knowing who your real parent(s) and/or siblings are, you won't understand that having this information early is much better than latter.

Angel Blanca said...

Wow. Mrs. AB06, you're messing up big time...for you and for us (by extension) as women. Mr. AB06, Even when you take precautions and walk stealthily along the relationship path, it's still easy to be blindsided by curves, which were unseen from one's vantage point on that road.

Was there really no inkling about her desire for extracurricular lifestyle activities? What are your conflicts right now? Is this woman someone with whom you can have a viable, trusting relationship after this? If not, then how might this situation affect you...and your children...moving forward emotionally? Is any part of this situation able to be salvaged?

I don't have any answers, as I've never married, but these are the questions I would ask myself in this situation.

Wishing you clarity and peace of mind, soul, body, and spirit.

Tori D. said...

From the comments, it seems like a lot of people believe the misconception that open relationship = cheating. In open relationships, the parties are aware of what the other is doing. If she were cheating, she would have had no need to propose an open marriage in the first place.

But I will say that it's suuuuper shady that she didn't tell him her preferences up front. That's something that should be discussed before "I do" is uttered. If this is something that she is set on and he is dead set against, there really can't be much compromise. It's kinda downhill from here. Hopefully they could move on together with some sort of agreement one way or the other, but I don't think it's likely.

Moabmu said...

ABO6-

The good and proper, spiritual side of me advises you to pray (if you're a spiritual/religious person), seek counseling, and try to work it out - not compromise your stance on monogamy - but come to some sort of happy medium that doesn't involve seeking play things outside your marriage.

The carnal side of me says to "Run like the wind, Bullseye!"; and agrees wholeheartedly with your statement - "I told her that if it's something she really wants to pursue, then we will need to discuss a "Divorce"."

That BS she spouted about " no species or human being on earth can be monogamous," is her way of telling you that SHE doesn't want to be. All these discussions are meant to prep you for the inevitable.

This type of craziness would have me on SNAPPED - quick, fast, and in a hurry...

You'll be in my prayers.

BlackButterfly said...

AB06 you definitely need to take Chele's advice and talk with a professional that could help you'll sort through what is going on in your relationship.

My opinion on the matter is frustration with people who like to use the 'bait and switch' in a relationship and somehow make the other party feel as if they are being unreasonable. The bait and switch works best on the prey when you are invested. 6 years in and 2 toddlers, you are fully vested and ripe for the possible switch so she figured it was worth a try! It is an unfair situation (because she basically withheld her true self) and I wish you well.

C Nelson said...

So again, this is not how you go about being poly. Bait and switch never works; either you come to it mutually because it suits you both (even if that's mutual desires after years of monogamy) or it falls apart. When one party feels lied to and blindsided (with good reason, might I add!) you've just eroded that firm foundation you need to have if your primary relationship's going to survive the transition. So not good.

C Nelson said...

Open relationship and cheating are not synonyms. Open relationships take more honesty, not less; your partners all need to know where they stand! Open relationship = "having multiple sexual partners with the full knowledge and consent of all parties." Cheating = "having multiple partners who don't all know about each other." When you're dating but not exclusive to one person and your partners all know that, is that cheating to you too? Because a ring on the finger doesn't change that dynamic any. Someone who prefers open relationships and will discuss that with you honestly is very different from a cheat who'll run around and lie to you.

Court A said...

I disagree. Why get married and COMMIT by saying this is the person I want forever and then continue to date non-exclusively? That doesn't sync for me. Seems like a waste of time and emotional energy. Who wants to come home to "how was your day honey?" and hear "I banged Shelley on my lunch hour and it was great." o_O

CaliGirlED said...

I'm fully aware of the definitions. "Consent of all parties" is the key phrase. She's trying to get his consent now. All I'm saying is if she has already started WITHOUT his consent, that's cheating and not an open relationship. If she's held back the desires and wants to get his ok before stepping out, so be it. However, had she been honest with him about her previous lifestyle, he wouldn't now feel like he's just been ran over by a Mack 10 truck with her new revelation...If he likes it, I love it.

Grown folks do your thang! Hollywood keep swingin!

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

What in the Sam hayle? Aren't married couples supposed to learn & experiment together? Why outsource before you find out if you can handle it in house or not? How is introducing a third (or 4th or 5th...) going to help w/ sensuality? Homegirl wants to be w/ someone else & is trying to get you to cosign. She also wants to protect her interests by getting you to step out so she can use the excuse that you both were unfaithful.

Frankly, based on how she brought this up & when, I don't think she has been in open relationships - at least not honest ones. Her & her past boo-thangs were just some cheating behind scallywags that got theirs whenever with whomever. Plus, she through this monkey wrench during the time you're grieving for your mom? Shady. She wants to have her cake & eat it too, and you don't have to let her just cuz you said I do. The only third party you need to invite in your marriage Is a good counselor.

Penny said...

One of the most devastating things about being in a relationship where the rules change in the middle is the lingering doubt of whether the person was lying to you all along and you weren't savvy enough to spot this.

thinklikeRiley said...

I ain't one ta start no ish in a marriage but ur uh... maybe wifey is a straight up freak and homie ain't hittin' it like dat. Simple. Give ole boy a shot to Mandingo it up a minute and see what happen.

J B said...

If the missus is so sexual, how come she isn't able to bring it out in her husband? See, this is what we call shenanigans. She wants him to cosign on her extracurriculars.

In AB06's place, I'd have to say so long to the relationship. Someone who feels that strongly about multiple cocoa cups should open a franchise and leave me out.

Iced_Coffee_Sweet_Tea_Diva said...

Brotherman liked it and put a ring on it. Sistergirl made a bid (took her vows) and now reneges on the bid. AB06: please put your children in the car and go get tested - them for DNA, you for whatever she might have picked up along the way. She's not 'thinking' about anything from the sound of your letter. She's probably stirring the cocoa and wants to let you in on the secret. She's as shady and deceitful in her way as BZLady's dude was in yesterday's post. Ish is ish and this reeks.

Grace said...

This right here. There's no way that she looked at Mo'Nique one day and all of sudden decided this was her new lifestyle. She had this in her mind all along.

blackprofessor said...

Um, shady written all over it. Old girl is a manipulator and no different from yesterday's playa with the money. Methinks the wife preferred open relationships all along and played along to get dude and now thinks she can flip the switch because it is cheaper to keep her as divorce is expensive.

IMO, her tabling the convo suggests that she won't bring it up again but she will probably do whatever she wants while expecting her man to suck it up and take it. I strongly suggest marital counseling but I agree with the ladies below who suggest getting a DNA test on the kids and he should get an HIV test while he is at it.

Rob said...

Whoa. That's deep. But some of these comments. BnB going IN. I wouldn't go as far as telling him to see if the kids are his and all of that. You telling a man to leave his wife because she made a suggestion? That's wild. That kind of accusation can kill whatever is good in their relationship. I agree with Chele, take it to counseling. If there's something else shady going on, he'll be able to pick up on it then.

rochee said...

Okay...so...I believe that everyone has the right to define their relationship however they seem fit. I don't believe that everyone can be monogamous and I also don't believe that everyone can have an open relationship. Do what works for BOTH OF YOU.

As I see it, there are two problems here. One, this woman is clearly bored , sexually or otherwise, and she is looking for an excuse to have sex with someone else before she actually invests the time and energy to fix or improve her sex life with her husband. Two, you can't just up and redefine a marriage while in the marriage. That is a recipe for disaster. She should have been open about her open relationships from jump street. This man should not compromise his position. This is nonnegotiable.

C Nelson said...

Who wants to come home to "how was your day honey?" and hear "I banged Shelley on my lunch hour and it was great." o_O

Someone who finds the thought of his/her partner banging Shelley a turn-on. Especially if all the juicy details get told and replicated in the marriage bed that night. Just because it's not for you (or most people) doesn't mean it doesn't happen and isn't a valid response!

C Nelson said...

Truth. The urge for different partners usually comes from realizing that your one partner can't (or won't, or just isn't) filling your needs, whether that's emotional, sexual, or plain old physical recreation -- if you want someone to play tennis with you three days a week and he won't set foot on a court, your need doesn't just go away, and no-one suggests it should: you go out and find a partner to play tennis with you. If he doesn't listen anymore, you find a friend (or even more than one friend) who does. We get tangled in all the "should"s and "that's horrible"s, though, when it's sexual -- and that's even though sexual needs are the strongest of the lot. They need to figure out exactly what it is she's missing, and see if and how that need can be filled with and by him.

Qalil said...

"cosign on extracurriculars" LOL!

Qalil said...

Why not? We all engage in discussions all the time that change our opinions about stuff...

Stank_0 said...

O_O -____- Really! Really?! REALLY!?

This is a swindle pure and simple, I feel very sorry for you bruh. I truly do because there are seeds of doubt in your mind now. You aren't sure what's solid and what is sinking sand.

If you don't trust her and the stability of your union, then it may be time to plan an exit strategy.

Only you know if a marriage counselor would merely delay the inevitable. If it's already over in your mind, then no need to waste your time and resources.

I hope you can make it through this relatively unscathed and leave the emotional baggage behind.

JaymeC said...

I agree with Rob and Riley. 1) Something about their marriage had worked for this long. I would advocate trying to fix it before making any accusations or breaking out the "D" word
2) Even back when they were dating she told hims she was "adventurous" so there were clues that she may like a few extra marshmallows in her cocoa. She probably back-burnered that to get the ring and have the kids but now she misses that extra whatever.

My hope would be that she give him a chance to be all that she needs before seeking it elsewhere.

The one thing that does bother me though - she shouldn't be bringing it up this close to the tragedy of his mother passing away. He's especially vulnerable. She knew that. The timing is suspect.

Qalil said...

Hold Up!

Remember, there are always two sides to a story.

It is entirely possible that Mr. A601-72Blindside (coz I'm too lazy to scroll the page up) ignored signs that this woman is not the monogamous kind. Maybe he thought he would make her into the kind of woman he wanted. Were there no clues?

Secondly, it is also possible that the idea of an "open" relationship was introduced by Monique. Why not?

I just think we're dashing to so many conclusions without hearing what she has to say about it.

(Frankly speaking, I'd say that it is important to allow your partner to find what they're looking for. If you're available when they're done and you can get over it, good. If you're not available, too bad!)

Trey Charles said...

I also wonder if it's as simple as they used to have wild Serengeti sex but now with the kids, some of that has fallen off and she wants it back.

C Nelson said...

If the missus is so sexual, how come she isn't able to bring it out in her husband? ... Come on, now. Because that takes him being receptive too? Because people get into a rut sometimes? Because the male ego sometimes is too fragile to "take direction" from a woman? Because we teach our boys that they should be more sexually experienced than our daughters and if they aren't it's a flaw on the part of the girl? Because this may not be the only time he's reacted badly to a sexual suggestion from her? Because he may like it how he likes it and believe she ought to like it (or at least TAKE it) that way too? Any and all of these are possible explanations -- I don't know, and neither do you.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

"Her position is that no species or human being on earth can be monogamous. "

Bull! There are quite a few mammalian and avian species who'd laugh that off the stage. But back to the topic at hand: this sounds like a discussion that should have taken place before The Ring, The Vows and The Babies. For all this to come out at this stage....wow.

CaliGirlED said...

Rob I hear ya, and my suggestion about the testing is not about divorce. It's about being on the front end of information and dealing with it rather than it dealing with you later. Looking back on my situation with my "other brother", I wish the adults, at the time, would have made better decisions and considered the ramifications of the future.

David Chase said...

I'm not saying you can't keep a relationship fresh. But you can't switch up the fundamentals mid-stream. There's a difference between "you should get on top tonight" and "I'm going to be under Jerome tonight" - that kind of agreement has to be fleshed out (no pun intended) early on. You can't just break that out on a Tuesday night "I want to sleep with other people and you should too" - no.

JohnKinPDX said...

Uh Chele - can we expect the whole week to be cautionary tales of hoodwinkery? I feel like I should take notes.

Jami Stephens said...

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe marriage implies monogamy. If you want the freedom to sample every and anyone's cocoa don't commit to a lifetime supply and sign a contract that said cocoa dealer is now your exclusive provider. This makes me nauseous.

Iced_Coffee_Sweet_Tea_Diva said...

This -----> There's a difference between "you should get on top tonight" and "I'm going to be under Jerome tonight" - that kind of agreement has to be fleshed out (no pun intended) early on

jake said...

I don't know. Something seems hinky about the whole situation.

BrendaKay said...

As much as BZ from yesterday needed the advice and guidance from a lawyer in dealing with her situation, AB06 most definitely needs the professional guidance of Dr. JaymeC. As a recent divorcee, I know that there are three sides to a marriage ~ the wife's story, the husband's story and the truth is somewhere down the middle. Sending prayers to you as well, AB06.

Sasha in Stilettos said...

Sir? Mr. AB06?
This>> Her position is that no species or human being on earth can be monogamous. is a pimp move. This is the kind of shiggity Pretty Toney tells Cristal & Alizay to get them to stroll harder for his dollars.

What I'm saying is - you are being played like a two dollar hookah. You don't need that.

Sasha in Stilettos said...

Don't suppose you have visual aids to go along with this comment? ;-)

Bunni said...

I don't think you can really compare sex with tennis or listening. Diseases aren't caught from playing tennis with someone else or talking with someone else. Unwanted/unplanned pregnancies don't happen from playing tennis or talking with someone else. IJS....

Javalicious said...

Ooo. Wee.

Leopard_Print_Pumps said...

But not, I don't think with something this big. This is changing/shaking the foundation on which their marriage was/is built... I'm not saying I don't agree with you re: changing our opinions, however, for something like this that will have such a huge effect, not only for the two of them, but for their children too, that's something that I believe (or at least hope) she had given due thought, and for a whiiiiile at that.

Javalicious said...

Serengeti Sex? *blinks rapidly*

Javalicious said...

I would love to hear Mrs. AB06's side of this. Until then, I'd just say "Good luck with that"

C Nelson said...

Diseases don't spontaneously generate when you sleep with someone; if you're both disease-free when you start, you'll be disease-free when you finish no matter how many times you sleep together. Pregnancy's a little different because no one way is foolproof -- but if you use a combination of ways or the most effective ways correctly, 99.99% of the time, you won't come down pregnant either. You're far more likely to injure yourself playing tennis with someone else than to catch a disease/pregnancy from sleeping with someone else if you're careful about protection and testing.

Leo the Yardie Chick said...

You're telling me! This is yet another item being jotted in the Things To Discuss With The S.O. Before Broom Jumping moleskine notebook.

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

Someone watches NCIS lol

C Nelson said...

*laugh.* I actually already discussed this with the fiance, and I keep pointing him to posts here whenever things we haven't talked about (or talked about in a while) get brought up. He hasn't gotten around to commenting on his own yet, but, for instance, when Chele posted about serial monogamy, we got a little more detailed about our exes: not just that we'd had them, but how many, when, and who. This place is like a guided course in couple-hood.

taut_7 said...

i would do exactly what he did. if she wants to seek an open relationship she needs to first seek a divorce. you can't keep things like your viewpoint on open relationships a secret before getting married.

Sarah said...

Well Shoot. The only piece of useful advice I can offer is that what works for me in times of stress, crisis, loss, or anything related is to turn the healthy meter up as high as it can go food, sleep, and exercise wise to keep the mind clear. And then, there needs to be some kind of counseling. I think these things are harder for men than women because usually a man's main emotional support is from his wife/girlfriend or his Mom. Having just lost his Mom, this is extra tough. I'm sending kind and comforting thoughts his way.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Let me break this down, when she says - "If I ever cheated" it wasn't a deal breaker for her That means when she cheats (if she hasn't already) she doesn't want to leave her.

When she says she was probably more experimental and adventurous than me means she did some shiggity that porn stars can only dream of

When she says Her past relationships while she was dating except 1, were all open relationships means none of them other freaky-ass Dexter St. Jocks would marry her so played prim and proper to land you.

You've been hoodwinked, bamboozled and led astray. If you're alright with that, keep it rolling. If not, it's time for the hard decisions.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Not Pretty Toney & Alizay?!

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Game.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Yup. Once the trust is gone, its a wrap.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

The tennis analogy was terrible, I agree.

C Nelson said...

Well, "old-fashioned" is a relative term for this. :) Marriage used to mostly imply (and still does in some cultures, including some fundamentalist offshoots of the LDS folks) that the woman would be monogamous and the man would take on as many women as he could support and keep up with. The Bible names something like forty polygamists, with only one being mentioned as a bad thing -- that's Solomon, who took a thousand wives, and it wasn't the practice but the large number of them that was frowned on.

Up until 1000AD or so, even Catholic priests took multiple wives if they wanted them; priestly marriage was eventually banned, not because it was bad, but because it threatened Church properties through inheritance, and inheritance is a large part of why monogamy is so enforced today. You'll notice the immediate up-swell of sentiment that he should make sure the children are his? That is the root of monogamy: because our inheritance derives from paternity, instead of along the maternal lines, it's more important to us to know that a man's sons are actually his sons. In those few cultures where inheritance is still passed along the female line, there's no real enforcement of monogamy, because a woman's children aren't in doubt. So you could actually argue that his wife's being more old-fashioned than you are, not that it changes the situation he has to deal with or the fact that she went about it all wrong!

Xpresso said...

Thanks C Nelson, I appreciate this point, because honestly I am not sure that many people even understand that marrriage was just a business contract. A merger of dynasty, assets.

CaliGirlED said...

I keep checking back for a description of that, but Trey is holding out! LOL

J B said...

If his ego is too fragile to take direction, him boinking another woman won't help.

My question is based on the letter: "She said maybe if I had another relationship with a woman, that I could learn something and possibly enhance our relationship." My point is that this was just giving him an excuse to go do others because that's what she wants to do.

Cassie said...

When (if) I get a husband, if he tries to switch it up 5 years in when I have two small kids, I'm not responsible for my actions.

CaliGirlED said...

*fist bump*

C Nelson said...

If his ego is too fragile to take direction, him boinking another woman won't help.

Maybe. Relationship dynamics are funny; they depend on interplay between two (or more) personalities. It's entirely possible that he might wind up with another woman who's more alpha in bed and he'll be less threatened (if that's the problem, 'cause again, I don't know!) because it's his mistress and not his wife, who is "supposed" to be submissive to/led by him. There's a whole layer of expectations about roles in a marriage that aren't there in an extra-marital affair; this is how we get the stereotype of the stand-up, staid man who's all missionary with the wife but going to the adventurous places with the girlfriend. And then, usually, we blame the wife, because if she'd been more adventurous she wouldn't have wanted anyone else, right? But if that's not what he wanted with her... it would have been rejected, coming from her.

Or it could just be that she hoped him having an affair would give her permission too, but usually there's not just one reason why people do things. What I want to know is, what kind of guy hears that his girlfriend is adventurous and experimental and doesn't take that as a cue to ask her about it? Didn't that titillate him even a little? Was he just not interested in hearing more? Nobody drops a line like that without expecting some follow-up!

Cherelle D. Mattox said...

Hahaha, so I am assuming Trey is talking about how the lions mate and roar in Serengeti Tanzania. Trying to keep it bougie up in here so you will need to use your imagine on this one.

aishao1122 said...

You been talking to my sister Haven't you??? Admit it we LITERALLY had this discussion last night and these were her words I swear to God, it's freaky

aishao1122 said...

i wish we could hear from her, cause to me it sounds like she has wanted to come out and say something but knows that he won't go for it, so she used the Monique show to bring it up. I wish people would just make their preferences known up front, sexual urges are too strong to hide for long, and the good ones (you know legal and consenting) shouldn't be hidden from you life long partner that's just a guarantee that your marriage or relationship is going to fail

C Nelson said...

Truth. Not that you can't ever convert a monogamous relationship to poly, but if you're going to do it, you need your partner's trust that you're not just out of love with them, that you're not trying to ditch them, that they'll still be more important to you than whoever else you bring in, so you have to be in a great place to start with. You can't have any of that if you've been hiding this hugely important part of yourself all along and it's only coming out as a surprise now.

Xpresso said...

I am a new commentor, but I am confused as to why the wife is so wrong. She seemed mature, and honest and had a discussion with her husband. She also seemed to respect his position, but asked that perhaps they can talk about it again. I absolutely see nothing wrong.

Should she have said anything about her desires prior to marriage, has anyone considered that maybe these are new desires?

If he agrees great, if he doesn't she can accept this or not. But discussion is a great beginning.

Marriage is a forever changing entity. People are forever changing. Nothing ever remains, nor should it stay the same.

My advice is that Mr. AB06 continue to speak to his wife, and he only he can decide what is best.

CorettaJG said...

As Reecie said yesterday, "Ain't No Way." If you want to have an open relationship, don't get married and definitely don't have kids involved with this mess. Counseling is definitely in order immediately because there probably is a lot more to talk about underneath it all.

Reminds me of when my ex-husband decided (thankfully after our divorce) that he didn't believe in Jesus anymore and tried to convert me to that ideology (even knowing everything my faith has meant to me! o_O). That's a serious game changer in a marriage. Especially if you're raising kids. Thank God he didn't come to this "revelation" while we were married because it would have been a HUGE struggle.

Keep pressing on AB06, your family is worth fighting for.

CorettaJG said...

Lawd have mercy! LOL!

Melzie said...

ROFL! Yep, I thought the whole rationalizing was a playa move.

Melzie said...

Sorry a seemingly good union had to go down like this, AB :-(


*adding this to the "Don't Let This Ish Happen to You" file...*

mojitochica said...

The wife is dead azz wrong because she knew she was into open relationships but neglected to mention that little gem for almost ten damn years and two toddlers later! This shiggity ain't new. She came with the "oh by the way most of my relationships before you were open relationships." She executed a straight up bait and switch, and that's why damn near everybody in Bougieland is calling BULLSHIGGITY!!!

tiffanyinhouston said...

My response today via the Twitters: Cpl from 2day need 2 find a swinger club & call it a day. Mr. Google cn help them w/ that.

mojitochica said...

e_O AB06 you have my condolences. This sounds like a case of irreconcilable differences. I agree with those suggesting you go get tested for STIs right now.

If I were in your place I would remove my name from any joint financial accounts, move out, initiate divorce proceedings citing irreconcilable differences, and file for custody of the children. The lying by omission would destroy my sense of trust in the relationship. Deal breakers are deal breakers for a reason. As Chris Rock said in his Bigger And Blacker show "Whatever you into, your woman gotta be into, too, and vice versa... or the shiggity ain't gonna work." Good luck.

C Nelson said...

Not even "damn near" everybody ... looking at comments, it's, erm, everybody. Even the people who can sort of see her point of view and don't think monogamy's the only acceptable option think she should have played this straight from the start. ;)

Natasha Hunter said...

All I have after reading the letter and the comments is a song lyric I recall,:

"Nobody wants to be called a freak, but everybody wants to get freaked."

Good night.

Just Ang said...

RIGHT!!

J. Jackson said...

AB06,

First my condolences about your mother. I lost my father on Good Friday (last Friday), and I can somewhat understand what you are going through.

With that being said. It seems that you wife is either creepin' or about to creep. I don't believe that people bring things up "out of thin air". She's been thinking about this for some time now, and was probably trying to find a way to bring it up to you without ruffling too many feathers.

I just think your wife should have been honest from the beginning of your relationship and said, "I'm curious about open relationships." SN: In my opinion, "open relationships" never work, because one person always catch feelings.

Good luck, and I hope it works out!

soldier said...

I don't think the wife is wrong and I've been nodding my head in agreement with C Nelson all along.
Seems like many of the responses just can't seem to believe that a woman can have an urge and want to discuss it with her partner without having already given in to it.

I'm not amazed by the responses, I'm kinda saddened.
This woman has been accused of all manner of shiggity for doing something which most people will urge you to do in a partnership.. COMMUNICATE your desires and intentions.

The possibility that she did not have this desire earlier on, despite having it before just seems completely out of reach in many of the comments.

But then, I guess because she is talking about a range of activities outside of most other peoples 'norms', people feel it is ok to make broad sweeping assumptions about her.

soldier said...

C Nelson...
Thank you. For representing a different side of this. I share your opinion on most of what you have said.

soldier said...

Stepping back in. from being out in the cold for awhile...

The way I see things:
Sometimes, its not that people don't come out with certain things before marriage, its that their partner at the time satisfies what they need at that particular time.

I have been in relationships where I experimented with different aspects of myself and my life. To the point where I would say when asked: 'This is how I need relationships to work for me'.
But then I met someone else, and those things I used to think were necessary, weren't. I didn't need it and as a matter of fact didn't even think about them.
What I am trying to say is... its not always that cynical. its not always the case that people are hiding and being vindictive about it. Sometimes, the urge for certain things just gets gone.

Re: the situation.
This is a marriage, their is a commitment and I hope that the husband will actually sit down with his wife and let her express herself and listen. he doesn't have to agree, he doesn't have to like it. BUT I believe he should hear her out without the threat of divorce without delving deeper into what exactly his wife is really trying to do.

To pull out the 'divorce' word without what seems to be a proper 'listen/discussion' just seems like an insecure power move on behalf of the husband.

He does not own the sexuality of the marriage nor should he necessarily be the dominant sexual being within the marriage and maybe therein lies the problem.

AB06, I'd say sit down and talk to your wife. Listen to her. You love this woman, right?. Then hear her out. You do not have to agree.. but hear her and get thee quickly to a sexual counsellor.

JazzaBelle said...

I just don't understand the point of marriage is you still want to experiment with other people. Secondly I don't understand how all her past relationships were open but she failed to bring this fact up with someone who clearly was not in open relationships as demonstrated in their 10 years of being together and his prior committed relationships. If she wants her husband to learn some new tricks turn on PornHub.com and watch how other people do it. Otherwise, if you're still itching to be with other people maybe marriage isn't the thing for you.

soldier said...

You raise a very interesting angle.

IMO learning tricks from porn has to be one of the worst methods of learning about sex.
Porn is rarely inclusive or for the benefit of women, I would go so far as to say that porn is brutal not just to the body of most women but also to their emotional psyche.

In addition, I've always felt that porn is the epitome of emotional detachment. You don't watch porn to learn to be intimate with your partner, you watch it to get your rocks off based on what someone else is doing to another woman.

I've always felt that whilst porn has its place, it is such a bad shortcut for REAL communication and discovery and has led to a lot of nonsensical expectations.

JazzaBelle said...

I understand your sentiments however I would rather try some tricks on me that you learned from porn than go out there in the world to learn some tricks and possibly give me a STD or STI. It only takes sleeping around with one other person to get infected. Sure you can use a condom but what about the diseases that can be passed from skin to skin contact that a condom can't protect.

If she wants to be in an open relationship I think the least of his wife's concern is building an emotional sexual attachment to him.

soldier said...

can't argue with your personal preference :)

However some of the 'tricks' which from that industry are more likely to get you an STI or STD than having an open relationship. Most 'pron' don't include condom, so what risky activity will your partner be learning from them?

Whats more puzzling to me is thinking that one forfeits emotional or sexual attachment simply because of an open relationship. It is not true.

What if he actually is mentally and physically incapable of satisfying her?. What if she has tried to talk to him but he has refused to listen?. Why should this woman be condemned to a life devoid of sexual pleasure because her husband is unwilling to listen to her?.

Is he beyond incorporating the idea of an open relationship into their fantasies.
I'm simply looking at the bigger picture here instead of accusing this woman of things we have no way of knowing, simply because she wanted to talk about her desires with the one person she is supposed to be able to be completely open with ---> HER HUSBAND.

GDB said...

I haven’t posted in a while but today’s post about hair brought me back, but first I had to address yours.

The first thing you have to do is consider a very different viewpoint. You are winning on a level, though already in existence, you have not considered how it applies to you. I will make a basic assumption that you are under 32 years-old. If you have yet to hit a rut in your marriage and there are currently no other major issues, then consider your wife a freedom fighter. She’s essentially freed you from male sexual bondage, better known as heterosexual marriage.

Imagine if Tiger Woods’ wife had made the same offer! He’d still be winning majors and still carrying hundreds more in millions. Instead of focusing on the myriads of negative and positive ways to take this, consider these two:

1) Sexual Identity (Bi-curious) – The tone of your letter, if you captured your wife’s true words and mood, hints at a woman who is questioning her sexuality, partly due to Postpartum depression and possibly her mortality as it relates to your mother’s passing. Yes, it’s poor timing on her part; but the whole bit about her being more experienced than you makes me think that’s what she means by “open relationships”.

This is something that you could definitely benefit you. No need for me to elaborate.

2) Not a competition – Even if item 1 is not the issue, don’t get pulled into some sort of competition with your wife particularly when it comes to a “numbers” game. If it is about numbers for her then that is something you clearly missed or overlooked. The key is to get a base “agreement” about privacy, and people and places that are off-limits.

Quality and Discretion are key but if you are certain sex outside the marriage will not work for you, take the opportunity to transition out of the relationship without feeling like you lost.

Alvin Milton said...

Brotha, sounds like you got bamboozled.

kidSistah said...

Sorry to hear about your father as well.

Alice Ross00 said...

I have the opposite problem!  I am a woman in a relationships for two years with a great guy.  It was/is and open relationship but we've been so busy that we havent really had time to persue it.  Now he is starting to get possessive and jealous if i make a male friend, something he catagorically said he would never do!  Now i have to decide whether to change and become monogymous or to go our separate ways.

My response to the above article is that relationships change and it is how you deal with that change that is important.  In suggesting an open relationship there is not the threat of cheating but the natural desire to form interpersonal connections.  In my experience it is not the sex that really matters but who you choose to go home to at the end of the day, who you comfort and care for and who does the same for you.  Open relationships, when properly discussed and with clear boundaries, can actually strengthen a relationship but it has to be the desire of both parties.  To agree and then be consumed by jealousy is the death of a marriage.

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