Thursday, March 24, 2011

Ask a Bougie Chick : No God, No Good-Good?


In this episode of Ask a Bougie Chick, we have a heartfelt letter from a 23-year old young lady. She just graduated from college in December. She met a handsome graduate student about eight months ago. They are having some issues... take a look:
Hi BougieLand! 
I'm not the type to ask for advice or have people all up in my business. But when I told a few people close to me about my situation, I felt like they gave me answers based on their experiences instead of what's best for me. Having read your blog for over a year now, I know that your readers offer their opinions straight up which is what I think I need. 
My mom is a single mom who has dated alot in my lifetime but never married. I wouldn't call it a steady stream of rotating men because that sounds disrespectful but then again, I guess that's what I just called it, huh? 
I have never wanted to be like that. I want long-term stability in every area of my life. One thing I do appreciate about my upbringing is that my mom made sure we were exposed to the church. I loved (and still) love going to church and growing in my Christian faith.  
Also, I just finished a degree in business administration and am gearing up to go to law school next fall. I want to eventually became an international attorney. Last September, I met a guy who is in the MBA program here. We fell into instant like. 
Two major problems - 1) I don't want to stir the cocoa until I get married or feel I'm the path to that level of commitment. 2) He won't go (refuses to go) to church with me and isn't a very religious person. Actually, he doesn't believe that God truly exists. 
Lately he has started putting pressure on me about the cocoa. He says that Christian or no, a 23-year old woman is a grown up and grown ups in grown up relationships have relations. He said I shouldn't be "saving it for Christ." I know it makes me weird that I'm hesitant to dive in.  
But I'm not even as upset about the cocoa as I am about the Christianity. I mean if this is a man that I want take seriously and have "grown up relations" with, I need him to be a faith-based man. That's just not negotiable in my book.  
What do you think? Should I just walk away? Should I try harder? Should I give in? I just don't know. People around me are saying he's a good man and I should give him what he wants before he leaves me and that there's plenty of time for him to find God. I'm confused. 
Whatever help you can give, I'd really appreciate. Thanks and I love your books!
-Sheryl 
Hey Sheryl,

Sorry sweetie, I don't like your man based on what you've told me in this letter. "You shouldn't be saving it for Christ" is real shady and borderline blasphemous, keep an eye out for thunderbolts. Joking. In all seriousness though - let's look at the cocoa question right quick.

If you're not ready, you're not ready. If you want to wait, you should wait. These decisions are yours and yours alone. Many a Christian woman (show of hands, please) have started off saving themselves and then, well, you know: Life happened. But as far as breaking that covenant you made, it's between you and Jesus not you and some dude. Don't let "some dude" pressure you into doing what you don't want to do. Believe me, if you really (really, really) wanted to - you would do it and pray for forgiveness later. It's the single Christian woman's constant dilemma.

As for the Christianity itself. I'm going to step back from the religious part for a second and say this -  a man who wants to be with you will respect your beliefs and  interests. The unwillingness to go to church knowing how important it is to you is a red flag. IMHO.

Now back to Jesus - I grew up in a Christian household and I fall off the path on the regular (amen and amen) but I couldn't seriously consider a lifemate who couldn't tip up in the church house with me. That's me. I need a man to have a religious foundation and a hunger for Christian knowledge because life. is. hard. Sometimes there are no other places to turn, no other answers to get than from Christ. Again - this is me. My path. My ideology. My rules. Sing it with me - You gotta know G-O-D if you wanna be with me. 

I'm not telling you kick him to the curb and move on; but you are clearly a smart and determined girl. Apply some of that same analytical thinking to this situation. And discuss it with him, see if there's a possibility for compromise. [Do NOT use "if you come to church, I'll give you cocoa" - Don't barter the coochie for Christ.] Ultimately, the ball is completely in your court. What will and won't you do? What does your heart, mind, body and spirit say? Let us know how it goes.

BougieLand, whatcha got for Sheryl? Please share your thoughts, insights, experiences and opinions? And if you were in Sheryl's shoes... what would you do? Fellas - if Sheryl was your little sister, what would you tell her? The floor is yours...

188 comments:

Jubilance said...

If I was Sheryl, I would run like the wind. This guy may be great, but his lack of respect for her life decisions regarding her faith & her decision to wait to stir the cocoa is very telling. And those sad reasons he's giving her for why she should stir the cocoa #nobueno. I'm all for everyone defining their sexuality on their own terms, but trying to coerce someone into giving up on their ideals/values just so you get something out of the deal is horrible, especially someone you are supposed to care for.

Whatever you do Sheryl, DO NOT SETTLE! If finding a man who has the same spiritual beliefs as you is a non-negotiable, then stick with that. Don't let other people, the media, your family, etc scare you into thinking you have to accept any old random dude who shows you a little bit of interest. Plus you are 23, you have plenty of time! Enjoy your life, enjoy being young, and let all that other stuff go in one ear & out the other.

Good luck!

bkbisous said...

"Don't barter the coochie for Christ."'

Expert advice, no matter ones religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

Reads4Pleasure said...

If he's asking you to compromise your morals and beliefs now, what will he ask you to compromise later? You obviously feel strongly about this, so move on to someone one that can respect what you stand for. Some things may be worth a compromise, your faith in God isn't.

rozb said...

"Don't barter the coochie for Christ" I am stealing that.

It sounds like the man is using your faith and his obvious disdain for it to manipulate you into a situation you will truly regret. Any man that tries to make you put aside your values, morals, and core beliefs is not the one you need in your life and will not help you in your promising future. He will also be the first to head for the door after getting what he wanted and move on to the next conquest. Ask any of the Bougieland fellas about this one...

I will be honest here (can I be honest here, Bougieland?). I never tried to wait for marriage or a serious relationship - as soon as I was 18, let's just say I wanted to find out what the fuss was about, and I have never regretted my decision to do so. However, I have learned through the years that you must completely own the decisions you make, and the goals you set for yourself. How you make these things happen will be up to you.

Do you want to wait? Then put yourself with folks who want the same things. And I don't mean the guy who will play bobblehead and co-sign just to get it on and poppin'. I am talking about the guy you meet that is practicing what he is preaching. He won't try to steer every conversation to sex and he won't try to put you in compromising situations, like late nights necking on the couch, or inviting you for weekends just so you can "talk". And...this is the kicker...if you decide he is the one before you get married, he will still show you the respect you deserve and will treat your first time like manna from Heaven.

Will he be a virgin too? Maybe, or maybe not, but he won't try to make you feel less of a woman or less mature because you aren't letting him in before you are ready. He will be respectful, caring, and willing to embrace you and your faith for the long haul.

You are grown. A grown-A 23 year-old woman who needs to put this greasy chap back on the shelf and find the actual right man for you.

Brneyed1 said...

Sheryl, please tell dude to kick rocks with flip-flops on. And playing that weak "grown folks" card? For realz player?? Trump that with the "respect me, respect my decisions" card.

A man who will challenge you to change your core beliefs gives not two darns about you. He wants what he wants, and will play whatever card he thinks he must to get it. And if he can get you to compromise on this, where does it end?

Stay true to yourself, don't let him rearrange you.

Michele said...

I like Sheryl. I do not like Sheryl's man.

She really answered her own question when she said: I mean if this is a man that I want take seriously and have "grown up relations" with, I need him to be a faith-based man. That's just not negotiable in my book.

This guy doesn't appear to care about her best interest. She should not compromise her beliefs for some dude who isn't willing to do the same.

Jennifer said...

Sheryl, you don't have to run away but you do need to walk away now. Save yourself ALOT of future pain and don't be a 'missionary' dater, ie: don't date a man thinking you can save (or 'save') him. We don't change people or save them, only God does. The only person you can change is yourself.

Kimistry_101 said...

I agree. A man's faith is the first thing I asked about as I'm looking down at his shoes , up at his teeth and asking if there are any drugs or firearms in his vehicle when we go out. I saw an episode of Oprah where the guy had given 10 women HIV. There were five of them on Oprah who had been dating the guy, not knowing about each other, and Oprah asked the women did they see any red flags, and the women said that he didn't believe in God or any type of Saviour or supreme being. My thought (my opinion) was, Wow, that's THE red flag!

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

You may not tell her to kick him to the curb and move on, but I will.

Problem 1: He feels entitled to your body. YOUR body. Not because you are so in love, and it is a natural progression for both of your beliefs, wants and desires. Nope, he wants the cocoa just cuz. No bueno. If he cannot; no, WILL NOT, respect your choices now, he won't ever respect them. Can you be in a relationship with someone who will not honor and respect you and your choices?

Problem 2: You enjoy going to church. You are dating an unbeliever who will not even stick his pinky toe in church. It would be different if he was a backslider who was raised Christian and just stopped attending church. It would be different if he had the same foundation, but thought church attendance is unnecessary. Your guy doesn't fit any of these. He is opposed to something that is extremely important to you, and seems to be against even trying to meet you halfway. I think he's written his termination notice, so please let him go so you can make room for someone who fits you better.

And, as someone who has been where you are, you don't have to worry excessively about if you will find a man that shares your beliefs. You don't have to date Sammy Superchristian to find a god-fearing man who is just right for you. And, church is not the only place that you will meet such a man. Take your time, live your life, and you'll find what you are looking for.

Penny said...

I agree with Roz B about the manipulation part. I am not a man, but from my perspective, dude is on a serious quest, and your hesitation had made him just that much more determined to complete the mission. Everyone has deal breakers-if faith in God is yours, then don't be swayed by someone who has you told up front that they don't (and won't) believe what you believe. He could find God, but maybe he won't. Now what? If you sleep with him, only your personal value system has been violated, not his.

Frankly, I am bothered by the lack of respect issue more than the religious issue. Someone who truly cares about you will not disrespect you by trying to belittle and diminish your personal belief system. If you have not had sex yet, this is clearly an important value to you, and a part of your faith walk. Do you really want to discard something this is so important to you on someone who will more than likely be up and out once you have "given in?"

You want to be an international attorney- you are 23 years old. Your possibilities are endless-you have tons of people (including men) to meet in your future, one of them is bound to share your belief system. Who knows who you may sit next to on the plane coming home from Italy or France with your international attorney outfit on?? Do not settle for this man who appears to be on a different path from you.

Mony_Mony said...

This sounds like an equally wack version of the "If you loved me you would do it" line that guys used in high school. "Saving it for Christ" does not make you weird, it makes you someone who is trying to live the Christian life. And believe me, it's difficult enough, walking the walk (I've had my own falls off the path) without partnering yourself with someone who is actively invested in pulling you off the path. I know from personal experience that it starts from you encouraging him to church to you just ignoring it to you skipping church as well. And saying that there's plenty of time for him to find God is like saying that there's plenty of time for him to stop cheating or plenty of time for him to decide he wants kids. It's never a good idea to start a relationship hoping that a man will change a major belief or value.

Whether it's religion or race or something as vague as spark, don't let anyone tell you who you should and should not be dating. In some ways, this whole concept of a good man is so detrimental to relationships. Women will compromise and stay in a relationship with a "good man" (which unfortunately often means educated/successful, regardless of actual "goodness") despite the fact that he's controlling, or cheating, or simply bores her to death. People will tell you all sorts of things, but at the end of the day you're the one who has to decide what you want for yourself. It sounds like you know what you want, and I can tell you from personal experience that it's a lot harder to end a relationship that you know is wrong when you've "invested" a lot of time in it.

Lady4Real said...

I'm just gonna dive right in and apologize right now if my comment is lengthy.

Sheryl, I am 27, I got married at 21 I am now divorced and married to my eldest sons dad and let me tell you how I got where I am. I started going to an apostolic church with my ex-husband before we got married. He was relucant back in the day to go but I would persuade him, threaten to break up with him and totally cut off the cocoa swirling because I wanted to do the church thing right. We got married because in that church that was your options, single or dating with the intent of marriage. I got married for all the wrong reasons; wanting cocoa, wanting to care for someone that most people wouldn't, and to be a rebel. Remember I said he was relucant to go to church until I started with the bribes, but bribery can only take you but so far, after we got married he slowly stopped coming to church with me (he had the cocoa and our church told me I had to submit to my husband so I couldn't withhold the cocoa as a form of punishment or persuasion). A few years went by and I started to go church so much by myself that frequent vistiors didn't believe I was married because my husband was very rarely with me. It begin to be a big stressor in our marriage along with a few other things. At the time I was a diehard christian and he was not and the two don't mix. After awhile I walked away from the church and him (I had to leave that church if I was going to leave him because they didn't believe in divorce). Now I'm not big on organized religion, still believe in spirituality though, not sure about Christianity but who knows in a few years I may believe again or may throw my hands up to all of it, I respect other peoples views on religion and I like to be respected for my views also. At the end of the day I said all of this to say that if he doesn't respect you or your religious views or your views on premartial sex he is not the man for you. You can not make a man believe in God, you can't make a man who wants cocoa not want cocoa and you shouldn't compromise who you are and what you believe for someone else. There are plenty of fish in the sea and what God has for you is for you. Walk away, keep your faith and things will work out for you in the end.

Lady4Real said...

I have to disagree with him not believing in a supreme being as being a red flag. There are people who do believe and blow up buildings in the name of Christ. There are people who travel the world giving aid to others and don't believe in a supreme being. It's not right to deem someone a bad person because they don't believe as the majority does. Atheist or agnostics are not devil worshippers and shouldn't be flagged as such. People believe what they want to believe and as long as they aren't hurting others they should be left alone.

Lady4Real said...

I LOVE YOU!! You said it all, perfectly, with such wisdom and compassion.

Lady4Real said...

Best quote I've heard in a while.

SingLikeSassy said...

What sticks out to me is this line: "Actually, he doesn't believe that God truly exists."

That is a fundamental difference. You believe and he doesn't. So dump this kid. And stay prayed up. The right man will respect your wishes to wait and share your faith.

Natasha Hunter said...

'tween you and Chele, I can't add nothing but "treat your first time like manna from heaven" just gave me a crazy visual! LOL... I'mma need to pass that one along ;)

seekingGod said...

Sheryl, I too have made the commitment to God to wait until marriage to as they call here "stir cocoa" so I know how you feel. It has def been a challenge with most of the guys I have dealt with not having the same belief system and I had to move on. I think that you should be seeking God for His guidance in this situation rather than the opinions of ppl, cuz lets face it, we all fall short sometimes. Proverbs 3:5 is a good verse to reference, God tells us to acknowledge Him in all our ways and He would direct our path. And He also tells us in 2 Corinthians 6 not to be unqually yoked with unbelievers. Bottom line, it sounds like you feel you are risking your beliefs and relationship with God for him and no man is worth that! I hope that helps some.

Miss-Devin Kemp said...

Sheryl,
I applaud you for sticking to your guns. If he isn't willing to a least get to know more about Christianity and make an informed desicion, then you need to let him go. As far as the cocoa goes? My best friend is 23 and also a virgin. I admire her resolve and commitment (especially in this day and age.) Don't let him pressure you into something you're not ready for. As cliche as it sounds, you are worth waiting for.

Your girl "C" said...

Sheryl,

I'm not going to get into what I would or wouldn't do or what you should or shouldn't do. You know what's right for you, otherwise you wouldn't have written BnB. I'm not hearing anything about how much you love the man. I think your struggle is standing up to the well-meaning folks in your life.

Let me feed your words back to you:

"... he doesn't believe that God truly exists. ... if this is a man that I want take seriously and have "grown up relations" with, I need him to be a faith-based man. That's just not negotiable in my book."

This won't be the first time that you resist the pressure of friends and family who's advice is based on only the superficial presented. Only you can decide what's best for you.

msdiannnaT said...

My advice would be to walk way ASAP. As a semi-believer I would never date someone who is so strong in their faith because I know I don't get down like that and it will turn into a huge issue on the future. As for the cocoa thing, if you don't want to give him any, you don't want to gibe him any. Plain and simple. You shouldn't compromise your beliefs for a manor anyone else.

Miss-Devin Kemp said...

Cosign!

Jazzy jazz said...

Sheryl ,

Run girl. I think in your heart you know that this is not a relationship you want to be in. He has no respect for you. If you werent a Christian then ok him not believing in God may not have been an issue. But the fact that he isn't willing and doesn't believe God exists - no ma'am. Don't be unequally yoked- this relationship is definitely unequally yoked. I too am a 23 year old virgin. You are worth the wait. Don't settle - you never know who you may meet. Don't be discouraged, but DO get out of this relationship now.

Ps next time ask what their religious beliefs are on like the first or second date - that way you know and it's not a surprise to you

lessie brown said...

This is a difficult issue. I was raised in a mixed faith home and it could get crazy from time to time. My mom was a believer and my dad wasn't. My mom was constantly hitting my dad over the head with his lack of faith. My dad didn't mind my mom's belief, he just wished she would respect his lack. I guess that's what it comes down to. If you like the guy and can be ok with the fact that he may never believe, and if he likes you and can respect that you're a believer and probably always will be, fine. Then mixed faith relationships can work. But if you're always going to be hoping the other will come around, and you get resentful when they don't, you'll both end up hurt.

As for the cocoa issue, I'm an atheist. I don't really buy the "save it" argument. THAT SAID, your body is your body and you share it only when you're ready. Even the few men I've dated have respected the idea that we'll go there only when we're *both* ready. If they felt like I was waiting too long, they didn't pressure me, they just asked where I was and if there was anything they could do to reassure my trust (heh. with the notable exception of my ex-husband. need i say more?).

I guess what I'm saying is, have a straight up talk with yourself about how you feel about this man and what you want regarding him and your future. Then have a straight up talk with him cluing him in to what you've decided. Regardless of his atheism, he should be able to respect your honesty and your boundaries if you're important to him.

Sasha said...

Sheryl, I'm 25 years old and I had a similar situation a few years back when I wasn't having sex. Listen to me. You not giving the cocoa is a great thing and it will weed out the undesirable men that are not right for you. If they cannot value your morals and values then it is not meant to be. Do not compromise if you know later on you will regret it or feel guilty. These men cannot save you!
Secondly, I find a religious background to be a dealbreaker for me. I would like for a man to go to church with me, understand and believe in what I believe. How are two people to get serious if the foundational background of faith is not the same.
Sheryl, you're at a age where older men might play with your head because you're young. Trust me! Men are doing it to me now. Some don't, but the ones I'm running into are. Know what you want. Don't settle because nine times out of ten men don't settle! I hope I was of help and not too harsh.

.tisha said...

Bless your heart.

We.Make.Life.So.Hard.

Listen, sugar. This cat? He's not for you. I believe that you knew that when you wrote in, but that's ok; sometimes we need people to look us in the face and give us the truth we already know.

Since you're a Christian, it is MEYE (probably unpopular) opinion that you shouldn't date a man who's not a Christian. I even take it a step further; if I can't look at your life and see the fruit of what you profess I'm going to smile, compliment you on your good taste in having interest in me, and kindly keep stepping.

Why?

Our heart isn't very smart. Often. I'm sure many of us can think of decisions we made with our hearts that....in retrospect--or even in the moment—caused us to think "Hmm. Well, that just wasn't wise at all."

The antidote?

Don't put yourself in the position to have to wage war between your heart and what you know to be prudent. That's where you are right now. Get out of that position.

Since you're a believer of the Way, I'm going to give you more scripture. 1 Corin. 6:12(a) says: "I am free to do all things; but not all things are wise.

Use wisdom, little sister. :)

.tisha said...

But it should be a red flag for a believer.

In the same manner that red flags would be raised for me if a man didn't pay his child support and spend time with his kid(s), or if a man was rude to his mother and/or the woman or women who had a hand in his rearing, or a man who is consistently broke because he's not a good steward of the money he makes (read: even if it's not a lot of money). I'm not interested in a man who does or is any of those things, so to see any of that would be a red flag.

So, I disagree. If you're a Christian and desire a Christian mate and a man tells you straight up he is NOT going to believe, that is a veritable SEA of red flags, and you should exit stage left, and that quickly.

GrownAzzMan said...

"If you're not ready, you're not ready. If you want to wait, you should wait. These decisions are yours and yours alone." This is everything! I'm sure that this man may have some qualities that she is attracted to but I don't see where they are on the same page about a number of important things. She is 23. No age is the right age to settle for someone who is not a fit and it sure ain't 23,
Run don't walk to get out of this situation.

Jeannette said...

Lil' Sis you already know the answer. Sometimes Satan brings someone along that has the package all tied up nice and neat, he's everything you want but this "one little thing". I've been in that position a few times, when i tolerated the fact that either he didn't believe in God or he believed in God but was spiritually defunct, or he just talked that spiritual talk to get some Cocoa cat. When all was said and done that one little thing was major for me, because in the long run it will never work, believe me on that. It will NEVER work.

rozb said...

"You are dating an unbeliever who will not even stick his pinky toe in church."

This. Right. Here. His attitude says it all, and is a pre-cursor to what a relationship would be like with him. If you give in to only his needs, while he has no respect for any of yours, he needs a really sharp scissor kick dead in his taint.

Kimistry_101 said...

@Lady4Real
As a believer it's THE redflag to me so anyone who doesn't have that same faith he will be left alone, by ME. I will break bread with anyone, but if you're talking about a marital relationship, nope.

rozb said...

I have tons of speed knots from all my falls while trying to walk on the path. I understand...

rozb said...

A. Men. Spiritually.

thinklikeRiley said...

Baby Gurl - keep the padlock on the punanny. Always another ninja, only one God.
Who surprised? What? Riley don't play with J.C.

rozb said...

It is good to have an experienced man's perspective GAM!

DesertBlack said...

I agree with Chele.

You said it yourself ... I am not ready.

Your SO needs to be about YOU and what YOU are about.

Trust your instincts ... if it is not feeling pro YOU, Keep it Moving.

At 23 you have your life ahead of you live it with zest to your comfort.

Steve said...

I have a 22 y/o little sister and it kills me to watch the game these young bucks try and run on her. This guy is straight running game to get the drawers, no where in this letter do I hear what a great guy he is. Onto the next Sheryl whether he finds God or not. You don't need this level of shiggity.

Gfsincere said...

Loving all the super-Christians coming out of the woodworks. I think focusing on someone's particular faith or lack thereof its about the stupidest thing one could do when dating. All that tells me is that a Chirstian woman is willing to settle down with a man who goes to church but aint about ish than a man who is more Christ-like than what you will find in church.

Me personally, I have had a chick pass me up because I didn't go to church, but instantly fall for a dirtbag from her church that aspired to be a "rapper" and was in and out of jail.

Stop looking at labels. I have yet to meet a Christian that wasn't in sort sort of role such as a pastor that wasn't full of it, especially among black folks. Look at what are person does, is about, and if they love you. Being worried about if they pray to some invisible man in the sky is wholly irrelevant to anything.

Religion stifles critical thinking and to me personally is a institution of control and it still boggles me to this day why any black person in America would be one.

But I digress.

The fact that he is pressuring her to do something that she doesn't want to do, REGARDLESS of how dumb or asinine the reason is, no bueno. I wouldn't deal with the dude if I were you simply off that. Your reasons are your reasons, but at the same time, I hear an air of superiority due to your theistic beliefs, which leads me to believe you don't respect his lack of beliefs, and rather harp on that than anything else.

But if he can't deal with waiting, then he needs to keep it pushing. Don't get pressured into doing something you might regret later.

FYI: I'm agnostic, because theists are delusional and atheists are arrogant. I don't know the right answer, but I do know all major religions so far are wrong as hell. Take that as you will.

maureen palmer said...

Sheryl, Oprah says (not verbatim), 1st it's a pebble, then a stone and then a boulder. I say this to say do ignore the signs that are glaring back at you like a red neon sign. Do not compromise on your core beliefs (in you case, a christian man and not stirring cocoa w/commitment). The wise folks say if you do not have a stand you will fall for anything.

kjnetic aka Peter Parker said...

kick 'em to the curb...if he cant/doesn't respect your wishes, and you have a hesitancy in your gut...

follow your gut. #onToTheNextOne

*admits his bias as a Christian man that will wait*

Kip D said...

Sounds simple to me: He's not the man for you. The two of you aren't in the same place and things are only going to deteriorate from here unless one of you has a change of heart. It doesn't seem he's gonna change his mind and neither are you. Agree to be friends and release each other.

KIM--Keep. It. Movin'.

Carmen said...

Sheryl,

I think you already know the answer, but you're stuck in a position that so many successful black women find ourselves in: do you cave to peer pressure and society and compromise on what's important to you, or do you let this man go and risk being alone?

All I'm going to say is this: God will provide all things on His time when you're ready. If you have asked for a God-fearing man who will respect your choices and makes his life decisions based on faith, then God will provide him when you're at a place in your life to be a wife.

TreyCharles said...

I'm not a "Super Christian" as someone stated below (*shifting to avoid lightning bolt*), but let's look at this from a player's standpoint. If a woman is into flowers and Skittles, I'm taking her to the Botanical Gardens with a 5 lb bag of fruity, chewy goodness. What part of the game is knocking the thing the woman said is a "non-negotiable" for her? Dude needs to be cut just on his whacktasticness.

Grace said...

Sheryl, if you took a poll of women you'd be surprised how many either regret or didn't enjoy their "first time" - there's no rush, it's not going any where. You've faith enough to declare your convictions, have faith enough to wait.

Cherelle D. Mattox said...

As a woman that went on a similar journey a couple of years back here are some words of wisdom. First, STOP asking folks for their advice because YOUR journey is not THEIR journey. At the end of the day you have to do what makes you comfortable. IMHO, you have too many voices floating around in your head that you haven't stopped to ask yourself one simple question that my dad asked me when I was at this crossroad. Imagine yourself 5 years from now married to this man and have had children with him. How comfortable would you feel in explaining to your kids why their father, your husband never goes to church with you guys and doesn't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? How comfortable would you feel if your kids start thinking like their father and reject your faith?

From reading your letter above you have ALREADY made a decision to leave him. I think right now its a matter of you pulling the trigger and being comfortable that its ok to be alone and walk away from someone that does not meet your non-negotiable of believing in Jesus Christ.

.tisha said...

Is it to much to ask that you simply elect not to believe?

Like...without all the vitriol for people who elect to believe?

Just seems to me that your overall answer of "but if he can't deal with waiting, then he needs to keep it pushing. Don't get pressured into doing something you might regret later (which I personally wholeheartedly agree with, spirituality or no)," got lost in all the "BUT.... you and anybody who believes like you are mindless zombies and hypocrites."

I'm just sayin'.

Hannington said...

Hmm. I gotta say this is why I'm gonna stay single, lol. To be blunt, I'm not a religious person, having recently come out as Agnostic. I can understand this woman's concern about her man not going to church with her, but don't you think she isn't respecting his right not to believe in a God? What should it matter, as long as he treats you right? I don't think she should stick around if he's pressurizing her to give up the booty, but I'm iffy on if she should make that big a deal of his faith. I won't go into it anymore cause I know all the religious folk here will go in on me, but yeah.

FreeBlackMan said...

Run girl. "Saving it for Christ"?
He doesn't respect you or your beliefs. He wants the cocoa and he's going to say what he has to to get it.
It is true that at a certain age men expect that woman are going to share the good-good but he should fall back if you're not there yet.
Stories like this make me sick because if this situation goes wrong, it's going to impact Sheryl's attitude and outlook for years to come. We've all seen it. Good girl meets wrong guy and her whole life goes off the rails. I maybe projecting a little based on a situation with my younger sister but let me just say to Sheryl - run, don't walk from this dude.

Deb B said...

Believe it or not, the bigger deal here is NOT her faith, it's his tactics. Any guy who pressures a girl for sex should be sent directly to the cut pile. Don't pass go. Just get gone.

Lady4Real said...

I can totally agree with you on that. We can walk together if we are on two totally different roads.

Lady4Real said...

damn, 'scissor kick dead in his taint'. That's brutal.

rozb said...

Not gonna go in on you from the religion perspective, but if you read this part - "Lately he has started putting pressure on me about the cocoa. He says that Christian or no, a 23-year old woman is a grown up and grown ups in grown up relationships have relations. He said I shouldn't be "saving it for Christ."" - he is very clearly showing he has no intention of even considering her viewpoint. Saying that grownups in grownup relationships have relations is a ploy to make her feel insecure about her own maturity, as if something is wrong with her not having sex with him.

Whether he has religious beliefs or none at all, he needs to respect the place she is in, and if he wants to have relations then he should go find a like-minded woman, rather than playing the head games and tricking.

So - is her NOT having sex with him disrespecting him? What indicates to you she is not respecting him? When anyone decides to abstain for any reason, is that a sign of disrespect? And what does his NOT believing in God have to do with no meaning no? *chin resting on hands*

Lady4Real said...

"My mom was cnstantly hitting my dad over the head with his lack of faith. My dad didn't mind my mom's belief, he just wished she would respect his lack" Perfectly said, it sounds like for Sheryl though that her guy doesn't respect her faith or her decisions and if he can't show respect he should go.

Pure Choco said...

Sex is like potato chips. Once you open the bag and have some, you're going to want more. If you're not feenin' for the flavor yet, hold onto that. . If you feel you're ready to go there, nothing you've told us about this guy indicates that he's worthy.

gregisdumb.com said...

"Saying that grownups in grownup relationships have relations is a ploy to make her feel insecure about her own maturity"

The reason why he said it doesn't detract from the truth value contained within that sentence.

I wonder how many people would come and defend my choice if I told a woman "I'm not having sex because I believe in Santa Claus and I want to be good so I get lots of presents under my tree this year."

But again, I think she should leave because they aren't going to work out regardless.

KAPSpecial said...

Personally, faith is huge. I'm a Christian. I can do a lot of things with nonbelievers (e.g., shop, go to plays, catch a movie, workout, have lunch, etc.). I can be cool as all get out with a nonbeliever. However, my conversations with nonbelievers are different than with believers. I enjoy starting or hearing a sentence start off with "Let me tell you how God was looking out, hooked me up, etc." so to be telling it to someone who doesn't believe in the existence of the very God that I find great doesn't really work for me. I can't be getting side eyed and blank stares when I'm talking about the goodness of the Lord. So my inner circle is made up of believers. So I couldn't imagine dating a guy who doesn't believe in the existence of my God. In my book, folks can believe whatever they want, but their belief will determine how close they can get to me.

Re: The Sex
Sex is no joke. Don't let tv, magazines, and blog posts fool you. It's personal. I personally do not equate sex to just an activity like going to spin class, getting a massage or doing laundry. Sex is a big deal to me. It seems to be a big deal to you so act like it. You should have sex when you want to and on your terms. My preference is marriage. If I have sex before marriage, it won't be because I am afraid of losing someone. Bet on that! I'm older than you and some folks in my life think I should just get it over with already. But I'm the only owner of this here body and peer pressure, society, etc. will not be a factor in my sex life.

And that "ain't you grown" card (sigh) will be in rotation till Jesus comes back. It's the lamest attempt at manipulation and must be rejected every time it's uttered. Being grown is about taking care of yourself emotionally, physically and financially. Be true to yourself and you'll stay winning!

Lady4Real said...

Wow Gfsincere, about the middle part of your comment I could see the good advice, the rest came off a bit 'mean'. Agnostic, athesist, theist whatever sect someone subscribes to is their choice and no sect has the right to degrade, belittle or disrespect the other sect. I don't subscribe to organized religion but I don't down it either. Different people need different things to be able to cope with life and the happenings of life and if they choose God to cope then let them, if they choose trees then let them and if they choose nothing then let them. Whatever their subscription there will beliefs and rules and people should follow their beliefs and respect those who do or don't believe. No one has the right to put their beliefs on to someone else.

rozb said...

I would defend your choice regardless of whether I agree with it or not. As was stated before on this blog, it is not a good idea to use the cocoa as some sort of bait. But, believe what you want to believe, and find someone who is in line with those beliefs or at least respects those boundaries.

And all grownups in relationships are not having "relations". There are couples waiting for marriage, or when the time is right for both parties - male and female. If he can't wait, or doesn't want to feel where she is in her life right now, he can get to steppin'...there are plenty of women serving up "relations".

.tisha said...

I'm not going to "go in" on you (though I don't consider myself "religious" but since I'm a believer I'm thinking you might), but I am going to say that your line of reasoning ("what should it matter as long as he treats you right?") is reading, to me, a bit like advice that was given to women in days of old in regard to staying with a man who was doing something he shouldn't be doing all because he still "treated you right." Kwim? Reminds me of that one song that said "I don't care about your other girls/just be good to me."

#no

I'm not saying that you're advocating cheating or anything like it, but what I am saying is that that line presents as a bit faulty. Especially because....if he's being disrespectful of her beliefs (which is different than saying "Honey, I'm not going to go to Church with you, but I respect your beliefs and your right to have them"), he's not being good to her!

I guess I just don't understand why a couple of posters say "it's not (or shouldn't be) a big deal" when the writer has made it clear that it is a big deal for her. I mean, that part's not even up for debate.

Lady4Real said...

'whacktasticness' submitting this to Webster because it's just an awesome word

Hannington said...

Her saying that she can't date a man because he doesn't have any beliefs IS disrespectiful to him as well. She doesn't want to accept that he doesn't want to be a believer. He can't accept that she is one. At the end of the day, in my view, neither of them respects the other's spiritual views. So, in a sense, neither fully respect one another. But of course, religious folk are all gonna say people like this douche and me are evil or whatever. Regardless of the sex, she needs to respect the place he is in as well. In this case, tho, it seems it would be better for her to move on.

William Martin said...

Since everyone seems to be declaring themselves, I'm a backsliding struggling with it Christian. I believe, I'm just not walking in the faith as I should. That being said, Sister Sheryl - No, Hell No. Let me go Lifetime Emo Dude for a second - your first time needs to be with someone who gets you. All of you. Not just a body part or two. I don't know what flipped the switch for him after all these months but here's where you are. He wants you, you don't want him. You really don't. If you did, like Chele said you would have done it already. Cut him like a ginzu knife through toilet paper. Sharp and clean.

GrownAzzMan said...

"whacktasticness" fist-bump for the made-up word that fits perfectly...

.tisha said...

Ex.act.ly.

Lady4Real said...

Gonna be completely honest with ya Hannington, I grew up Christian, spent 6 years as a diehard Christian and in the last 1 1/2 years have decided not to subscribe to organized religion. Having been on both sides of the fence I will give my opinion on why his not being of faith is an issue for a faith based person. In Christianity and most religions a person is not supposed to be with someone outside of their faith because it may pull them away from their faith, a believer is supposed to spread the gospel and leave alone anyone who refuses to believe. For a non-faith person it is not a big deal to be around believers because there are no rules for non-faith people that says you can't be with someone who is a faith based person. Do you see the issue? Believers have rules that they are supposed to follow, non-believers don't. She is just being faithful to her beliefs and that is respectable.

Hannington said...

She isn't respecting his non-belief either. Why is everybody staying silent on that section? And as it pertains to me saying what does it matter as long as he treats you right, I mean, long as he ain't stealing cars or raping or killing, it's all good. I meant that more in the sense of you having different personal views. In every relationship, your views will clash. That's part of any relationship. Does that mean you can't work things out? Sometimes yes, other times no. But if either side puts pressure on the other to accept their wants or beliefs, the relationship is not worth it.

Lisette said...

THIS: I need a man to have a religious foundation and a hunger for Christian knowledge because life. is. hard. Sometimes there are no other places to turn, no other answers to get than from Christ.
Bravo on speaking your truth. The fact that you've got some folks riled up simply by announcing your faith tells you you are doing great things with this blog.

Oh Sheryl - no ma'am. Cut and run.

Lady4Real said...

I just want to shout out all the Bougieland Brethren, Steve, GAM, Riley, Kjnetic aka Peter Parker, Kip D, FreeBlackMan and TreyCharles. You guys are awesome men giving great advice.

Hannington said...

"In Christianity and most religions a person is not supposed to be with someone outside of their faith because it may pull them away from their faith."
So should a white man not get with a black woman because they have cultural differences? I'm just sayin. I feel like people let religion control their views way too much. For example, I recently heard this woman write to a radio station asking about this guy who is interested in her. She said he was kind, funny and an overall great guy. However, she said she doesn't know if she wants to date him...simply because he isn't Christian? You're gonna give up who could be an awesome man..just because he isn't the same religion as you? First off, that smells of elitism. Second, that's a damn shame, cause she'll have to spend the future wondering "What could've happened" instead of "What Did?'

Kimistry_101 said...

Agreed Sex is serious and designed to bond people so you really want to handle it with care.

BB Waite said...

Setting aside my fervent (fervent!) religious beliefs, this whole thing comes down to this He wants panties and you don't want to give them up. That's reason enough to move on. Ask yourself this, if he decided to come to church and get baptized on Sunday, would you sleep with him Sunday night? Probably not. You're better than that, sweetie. You are more than your Vicky's Secrets.

BB Waite said...

I appreciate all the fellas giving their perspective. It's good for women to see the "other" side.

Lady4Real said...

Cultural differences and religious differences are two different differences. Religions have rules and standards and they must be followed. I'll try an example, households have rules to live in a certain house you must follow those rules, if you don't like the rules move out and do what you want, but if you are going to live in this house you must follow these rules. I left the house because I didn't want to live by the rules but I don't knock anyone who likes the rules and decides to live in that house for the rest of their life. It is not elistist, it is a choice and should be respected.

SingLikeSassy said...

I am not a particularly religious person. I do believe though. In my opinion this has nothing to do with her not respecting his non-faith. Her faith is important to her and as such is a non-negotiable. It also speaks to important core values they don't share because she wants to wait to share her body and he feels like waiting is stupid and childish because it is rooted in that religious faith he doesn't share or believe in.

I Am Me said...

If this was my little sister I would ask for dude's address and promptly arrive to have a "grown-up" conversation with him. Dude - she's just not that into you. If she wanted you like that, she would give it to you like that.

Lady4Real said...

I can semi-agree that she isn't respecting his non-belief but he isn't respecting her beliefs and that is where the problem lies. They just need to go their seperate ways because they can't agree to let each other be.

Hannington said...

To me, it comes off as elitist. It's almost like a chick saying, "I like you. You're a nice guy and all, but I can't date you because you're poor." Like you can't be seen with that type of person or everyone is gonna think bad stuff about you.

Hannington said...

And by the way, you don't have to follow those religions differences. You choose to. Nobody places a gun to your head and tells you, "You better become a Christian and read the Bible everyday or I'm gonna blow your head off."

MariSol said...

As someone whose first time was awful (almost traumatic even) because I really didn't want to but everybody said "it was time" and "don't lose him"- I wish I had listened to my heart and waited. One of those things you want to take back but never can. Sheryl, I believe you know you're aren't ready and are just seeking validation. Here it is - wait. If he doesn't like it, he can go.

J. Jackson said...

Sheryl,

Like the other residents of BougieLand have said, sex is a very PERSONAL experience. For the simple fact that he's saying, "You shouldn't save it for Christ" shows his true intentions-he's only in it for one thing.

Honestly, I don't think you should give in. Like you, I haven't participated in cocoa activities (I'm 26, and have six weeks to go in finishing my Masters program *knocks on wood*). For me, it was a personal decision I made because sex can complicate things.

Also, I don't know if this has been addressed, but I'm tired of people covering up for a person's lack of character. The simple fact that he's pressuring you to have sex, tells me he's not a good man. Rather he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Finally, I couldn't date a man who doesn't believe in God.

Good luck!

TreyCharles said...

I was going to bask in the praise on this one but I stole from Her Cheleness. She tweeted it the other day and I had to poach.

CorettaJG said...

I'm another fervent believer who has to to cosign all of this good advice. Let this man be. There will be other men that you connect with who will respect your beliefs and be on one accord with you. Believe that. God knows the desires of your heart. Trust him to take care of this most important one. Sex is serious business.

OneChele said...

Whoa son! No one thinks you're evil for believing what you do or don't. The thing is, her respecting him isn't relevant in this case because she's not pressuring him. He doesn't want to church. Okay, that's one thing. She's still with. Him wanting her to share the cocoa and be a "grown-up" - whole other problem.

Lady4Real said...

I like you Hannington. To me it is not the same because rich people don't have 'rules' that say that can't date a poor person or they will be 'damned'. Now if such a rule existed say there was a rule that said 'If a rich person dates a poor person they will have all their riches taken from them for all eternity'. I think they may not date a poor person because they don't want to lose what they value and can never get back. That's organized religion, they can't just do whatever because there are rules and if they break those rules there are consequences.

OneChele said...

Why you had to bring Santa into it?!

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

It's tight but it's right! LOL

David Parrish, Jr.(Inkognegro) said...

Im going to assume that y'all have exposed this clown for the punk he is and just say good Afternoon to everyone.

I will also say that while neither of us were virgins, My first wife and I didn't have sex before we got married.

While My relationship with God is much closer than it was 15 yrs ago when I made that decision...There is not a chance I would ever make that decision again.

OneChele said...

I see some of y'all have swirled all off the point in the comments section. Let me state (for the record) that we welcome everyone in BougieLand regardless of gender, size, height, race, skintone, hair type, profession, sexual orientation and religious affiliation. So miss me with the assumptions that your comment isn't welcome or will get slammed. We're not that kind of site. You only get bounced for flagrant rudeness and disrespect here. Carry on...

OneChele said...

Why I gotta be "Her Cheleness"?!?

.tisha said...

I think many people are silent on it because she's not clearly disrespecting his beliefs, as he is hers. On what are you basing this? What stood out in her letter as her not respecting his beliefs? I'm not being facetious, I just really don't see it. I don't see where she's doing that OR where she is pressuring him. He's saying what he wants and she's saying, because of her beliefs, what she's NOT gon' do at this point in her walk.

I don't see disrespect or pressure (toward him) there.

Hannington said...

Lol. I said that cause sometimes people think Atheists and Agnostics are Satan worshipers who have Marilyn Manson posters hung on our bedroom walls and sacrifice goats. I'm not an atheist, but I've since revoked being a Christian. I don't know what to believe in anymore, but I do know I'm not interested in a religion that was forced on a certain group of people simply because another certain group of people thought it would "civilize" them.

TreyCharles said...

Pardon me, your insecurities are showing.

Lady4Real said...

I would like to say that as someone who waited for my first time and did it when I was ready and with the person I thought was the right one, it was fantastic. I didn't listen to peer pressure, I wasn't talked into it by him and in fact when I told him I wanted to wait until marriage he respected it and never asked me to go against my beliefs at the time. We were together for 2 years when I decided that I wanted him to be my first everything (he was already my 1st kiss, 1st touch and 1st true love so I wanted him to be my 1st and my last) I did what I wanted and wasn't pressured and Sheryl should do the same. (And in fact he was my 1st and my last just not my only)

Lady4Real said...

Nope they don't but it is said that if you don't read your Bible or live like it says you risk damnation. Head blown off or eternal damnation sounds equilvalent to me.

Lady4Real said...

because you are royal and ya know it. Purple Princess

Slimuel L. Jackson said...

Haven't read all the comments but...

I'm gonna go ahead and ignore the spiritual part here. The bigger issues are the pressuring for her to give up the buns and people urging her to let him smash it up because he's a good man overall.

She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to in this situation. If she wants to wait and have that connection, then she should wait and have that connection even if it's not with this guy. There's a misalignment of values, which appear to be a really big deal for her. If he can't wait it out, he's either gonna dead the situation or stay in it and go elsewhere on the side. And the idea of a man going to church with his girl so that he can get it in is all sorts of wrong.

As for the "girl, you better do what that man wants because he's a good one" talk is asinine. If she's a great person, there will be plenty of other men out there with similar values that will appreciate where she is coming from. They'll probably also have a strong relationship with God just like her so this shouldn't even be an issue. To let someone get the cootie cake because he wants it even though they aren't aligned where she needs them aligned is pretty much giving him the power to do whatever he wants in the relationship. Keep the good-good up on the heavenly pedastal.

Oh yeah, and have a really serious conversation.

.tisha said...

"Her saying that she can't date a man because he doesn't have any beliefs IS disrespectiful to him as well."

How so? I promise I must be real dense today because I don't see this, either. She's not saying that he's (insert some unsavory, disrespectful term here) because he doesn't believe as she does. She's stating that he doesn't believe and that's a problem for her. The end.

Hannington said...

Insecurities? I would say I'm arguing against insecurities here. Is not dating someone because they are different somewhat of an insecurity? And by the way, everyone has insecurities. I'm sure that applies to you too, Charles.

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

Nobody is saying that you are evil. I do disagree with your assertion that saying you won't date someone due to their religious beliefs is an invalid choice. You cannot advocate for choice and acceptance in one arena and then suddenly become restrictive in another. It's inconsistent. Respect for one's spiritual views does not mean that a person HAS to date, stir cocoa with, or marry you. It sucks, but it just happens to be a reason that some people use to exclude dating partners. There have been men who wouldn't date me for any number of arbitrary reasons, and men that I didn't date for a number of arbitrary reasons.

Anywho, if a person tells me that faith is a non-negotiable for them, I don't argue with them. I respect them enough to trust that they are the best judges of what works for them. I could offer my opinion as to being more open to people based on character traits (I dated non-christians, lasped christians, and full fledged bible thumpers) but I won't try to dissuade someone from their beliefs because I respect the choices that they make in their lives.

Jesse said...

Slim has spoken, so let it be.

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

Based on all of your comments, I went back and reread the letter. I can see where you get that she isn't respecting his beliefs (or lack thereof).

Now, she could simply stop pressuring him to go to church, and not involve him in that part of her life. They've been dating for six months, so it's not as if she hasn't worked around him not being a Christian.

Still, there is the big glaring issue of his refusal to respect her bodily autonomy. And that is just a huge, HUGE problem for me in reading this letter. If it weren't for this MAJOR red flag, I'd advocate for her to continue dating him and to chill on the religious talk. But that's not the case, and so we have to deal with the situation that is presented.

Hannington said...

Well, it is unfortunate that people base relationships on religious ideals at times, but I guess that's how some roll.

Natasha Hunter said...

LMBO! (Leaving My Bible Open)

Natasha Hunter said...

Which makes him human...

Hannington said...

Well, like I said above, Both of them can't accept one another's religious differences. And yes, he may be pressurizing her for sex and telling her not giving it up cause of religion is dumb, but she can't roll with his views either. And I will reiterate here: I do think she should leave this man for another. And then maybe she can find someone who respects her religious views and she respects his as well

.tisha said...

"Is not dating someone because they are different somewhat of an insecurity?"

So wait. Wait.

Now having preferences=insecurity?

Maybe I was out the game too long. LOL.

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

Conversely, you don't have to date every nice guy that presents himself. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying "You better date this nice guy or I'm gonna blow your head off." People choose who they are going to date for many reasons. Regardless of what we think of another's choice, it is still their choice and theirs alone to make. Just because you don't value something does not mean that it has no value for anyone, anywhere.

Just_A_Thought1218 said...

I'm right there with you on the backsliding struggling with it part. You aren't alone :-)

blackprofessor said...

Nothing to add, as usual Bougieland has covered it fully!

The pressuring for sex is a huge red flag in addition to the misaligned religious values. A REAL man respects the woman he is trying to be with and if she needs more time to get comfortable having sex, he gives her that. A REAL man also recognizes when a man and woman are not on the same page and steps off. He recognizes that there are many fish in the sea who are not waiting for marriage and sets his bait accordingly. In short, you have a little boy on your hands, not a man so run like Forrest Gump!

.tisha said...

Would you concede that "him telling her not giving it up cause of religion" is not the same as her simply saying that she can't roll with his?

I agree that she shouldn't be pressuring him to go to Church (if she is; I didn't read that but I see how it can be implied). Grown ups shouldn't be pressuring grown ups to do ANYthing though. The very fact that you have to pressure someone to do something lends itself toward that person simply not being the one for you. No harm, no foul.

Hannington said...

Lemme rephrase that, lol. My bad. To give an example, a man not wanting to date a woman because she makes more money than him. They're different in their financial arenas. That would be insecure. I'm sorry. Sometimes I slip up when expressing my viewpoints.

Hannington said...

I agree. He cannot respect that she doesn't want to give it up. And she should leave for that reason.

David Chase said...

I tried to read the comments, some of you are doing EXACTLY what Sheryl didn't want - projecting their own issues onto her. She asked if she should give up the cocoa to dude. No she shouldn't. Should she be concerned about him not sharing her belief system - yes, she should. Nuff said.

rozb said...

You aren't evil because you don't have the same beliefs. I think the point is to not try to keep manipulating someone past their set boundaries. The woman said she can't unless she is in a committed relationship with someone who shares her values. He has clearly stated he does not. And yet, he is saying that regardless of all that, if you're grown, and in a relationship with him, cocoa must be served hot, steamy, and creamy.

This guy is pushing boundaries that have been set. She is young, and is probably staying, hoping he might soon change his mind and say she is worth the wait. He obviously doesn't think so, and she is letting her attraction "talk" her out of moving on. She needs to go to her place of prayer and meditation and he may need to go ice it down or something.

.tisha said...

Okay.

Orrrrr....it could be that she has a lifestyle she's trying to uphold and he can't help with that (may be a lil shallow, this is not my personal view, LOL), or she might not want to have to work after she has kids and they can't live solely on his income. There could be a ton of reasons other than her being insecure.

Now, do I think people pass up other (great) people due to their own insecurity? Sure! I agree with you on that point. But I just don't think the shoe fits here.

rozb said...

Your belief or non-belief is your journey and is personal to you. It deserves respect.

BTW - what do you mean that y'all don't sacrifice goats? What do you non-believers sacrifice? j/k!

Hannington said...

Hmm. I'm not really sure, to be honest. But I think we can agree that we have to chalk this up to personal preferences. And that Religion sure can complicate things, lol.

05girl said...

I don't usually comment, but this was a new one. You want to wait; he doesn't respect that; NO-GOOD. Move On.

More importantly you stated items you felt were NON-NEGOTIABLE; he does not hold these same NON-NEGOTIABLE values. As much as you want a long-term stable relationship, he's not the one for it.

05girl said...

er, this was an *EASY* one.

Cha Keziah said...

All I can do is cosign what has been said repeatedly: don't do it. The fact that he won't respect your views? Bigger than a red flag. This is a do not pass go, do not collect $200, type stop sign. Get away from this guy. No cocoa because he doesn't respect your body. No relationship because he doesn't respect you who are as a person. Run, with the speed of the wind, away from this guy. Run. Run so they say "see Sheryl run."


*warning: biased statements and sermon ahead* And from one Christian sister to another: nothing will break your heart like investing yourself emotionally in someone who can casually dismiss all that you believe in and hold dear. If your faith is as fundamental to you as you say, then no, you can't remain in a romantic relationship with this man. The heartbreak you feel breaking is nothing compared to remaining. This isn't just a preference, it is the basis of everything you do in life. It is your foundation, and it is impossible to be truly aligned with someone coming from a different foundation. Though you may make the same decision, your fundamental reasoning is different and will eventually show. No shade to those who don't, none at all, but if this is the decision you make, it's the decision you make, detractors be damned. If this is who you are and what you believe, if Christ is your all, then that's it. Is this hard? Yes. Even harsh? Perhaps. The choice you make when deciding to stand for your faith convictions to the level you have expressed? Absolutely. Oh, and as a 27 y.o. who has made the decision - because of Christ - to not have sex until marriage: you can do this. It's not easy, but there are great guys who respect it, and even more, a greater God who keeps you through it.

gregisdumb.com said...

Because I had to! It illustrates the ridiculousness of organized religion and their belief systems. Had I wrote the letter and said that ish I would have gotten clowned to death! But hey, throw some other magical being into it and people are down...I don't get it.

gregisdumb.com said...

I think you are missing that, I bet any type of money she talks about God and stuff with some elitist flair and superiority and talks down to him when it comes to that.

He's trying to guilt trip her into some cocoa.

She's trying to guilt trip him into coming to church and getting "saved" and so she can show him off at church.

It's going to end badly.

gregisdumb.com said...

Me personally, I have a hard time respecting believers intellectually, so they tend to not be in my inner circle. I mean, how can we talk about science or other questions that require reasearch and a person is quick to yell "God did it" and ignore all further discussion. The arrogance that comes from that is amazing, to say the least. The intellectual laziness of it all, and 99% of the time utter hypocrisy about it usually drives me up a wall.

Plus I'm more likely to trust a agnostic or atheist than I am a believer because believers tend to be far too flexible on their morals and quick to twist an interpretation of whatever book they use for their beliefs to justify it.

So same story, different characters I guess.

gregisdumb.com said...

if thats the case then you cannot get mad at racists for thinking that black people are inferior, lazy, etc.

After all, its what they "believe".

Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions are equal, and not all are valid.

If you profess belief in something, fine, go on about your business. As soon as you start making empirical claims that it's true, that's when I gotta slam the crap out of you. Because just like you guys slammed that dude Leon for having the "belief" all black women were some sort of way, you can't then act like your beliefs are sheltered from criticism regardless of their ridiculousness.

There is a difference between respecting her decision (which I wholeheartedly do) and clowning her for the justification behind it.

Smart decision, stupid reason for it.

Earthangel172 said...

All I have to say is that if he can casually dismiss your faith in Christ, then he will casually dismiss you after he gets what he wants. Sounds like he is only in it for the cocoa anyway.

I'm a Christian and I REFUSE to marry anyone outside the Christian faith. That's just the way it is over here!

"How can two walk together unless they've agreed to?" Amos 3:3
The last time I've checked, y'all aren't in agreement on a number of things...very important things at that!

Do the right thing baby girl and just walk away.

Joycelyn Curry said...

I'm gonna echo everyone else and also use a partial quote someone said in a previous post "Run and left at the lantern". Nothing is worth selling your soul and believe me if you let this sucka talk you into something you really don't want to do, you will be selling a bit of your soul for the fantasy of this man. It will not last because once he sees he can manipulate you on something so big, you will be but a pawn in his game. It is better to be single forever with a full sense of self than to compromise so greatly for someone who is clearly not worth it.

blackprofessor said...

Um, not sure I am following your comment. It seems like you are saying that Christians can't have intellectual debates about science or topics that require research?? Please expound!

Disclaimer - I am a Christian, professor, academic and statistician so doing research is my primary hustle at a public university.

digital eve said...

Ok without reading any other comments:

1. the cocoa: what I have seen is wrong with the "holding out" choice is that going into a marriage without knowing if the cocoa stirring will be good is a recipe for disaster. I feel it is an outdated taboo to want to wait until marriage as we don't do that with other aspects of a relationship. The only reason I don't recommend waiting until marriage is because you need to know what you like FIRST, before you know if you are compatible with your husband-to-be. In the words of Dr. Phil (I know, I know...humour me!): if the cocoa is right it makes up only 10% of the relationship; if it's bad it makes up 90% of the problem.

2. With that being said, I don't think this is the guy for you. Chele is right that a red flag should go off when he doesn't respect the church. I also don't believe in religion, but I would not knock somebody else's religious hustle down either! At the very least, he needs to be respectful, sensitive and open-minded. At the very, very least you should both agree to disagree. It seems like if he is mocking and disrespecting such an important aspect of your life now, then it will only get worse. Imagine what you would say if he told you that law school was a joke and he didn't believe in it!

3. Deal breakers are deal breakers for a reason. If having a religious man is truly that important, then this deal is kaput. Nowadays some people don't take religion as seriously as others, which is why your friends are looking at you stupid for trying to stand up for that part of yourself. You would probably laugh if a friend of yours said that she would not date a man who doesn't jog in the mornings (or something) but if it's a deal breaker for her then that's her right! As long as it is not damaging to you and yours you are entitled to believe what you want. There will always be those that don't hold the same values, so take their advice with a grain of salt.

4. You sound like a serial monogamist. Nothing wrong with that. But as women, we sometimes settle and compromise in one area to gain the benefits of another. Ask yourself: are you willing to give up your devotion to God and your virginity for the benefit of stability with a man? any man? You have come this far, and this situation serves as a test of your integrity.

I once heard someone say "walls are there to show our dedication". Good luck!

Gods_Man said...

Fellas - if Sheryl was your little sister, what would you tell her?
I'll tell Sheryl what I just got through telling my 20 year old niece who is dealing with a similar issue. LET. HIM. GO. Any guy who is pressuring you to give it up, for any reason, needs to be cut loose. He does not value her. Scripturally I would share with her about what a Man should be doing, LOVING her, SACRIFICING for her, and HONORING her. There is nothing in what she wrote that shows he is doing any of that. I would share that there is value in her desire to honor God this way and that any guy who can't see that is not really seeing her.

Also, if Sheryl were my sister I would be having a serious discussion with her man about his attempts to manipulate her.

OneChele said...

I think you have a few too many assumptions perhaps based on your personal experiences but we'll just agree to disagree and keep it moving.

gregisdumb.com said...

You average Christian isn't willing to admit "I don't know yet, but I will get back to you" on the tough questions, especially when things pertaining to science. Perfect example are people wanting intelligent design to be taught in school though it has no basis in reality. Religious people aren't willing to admit "I don't know"...they will instantly default to "God did it". I like to talk about stuff like philosophy and astrophysics, and this is nigh impossible with religious people, because an impasse will soon be reached because of their inability to question their beliefs from an analytical perspective.

Rob said...

What is halfway ticking me off about these comments is that mostly people of faith have been respectful of the other viewpoints, while some of the others are not. It's one thing not to believe, it's another to mock and insult those who do. I don't want to set off a Holy War in the comments section but disrespect especially when it comes to others' beliefs is un-freakin-acceptable.

As for Sheryl, she already knows.

CaliGirlED said...

[Do NOT use "if you come to church, I'll give you cocoa" - Don't barter the coochie for Christ.]...*gone to see my Jesus*

CaliGirlED said...

If you settle for less, you get less than you settle for.

And let's be honest, once a man has talked you into stirring the cocoa against your initial will, but you gave in, he won't stop there. Before you know it you be doing much of anything you first started out to do.

CaliGirlED said...

Exactly! And if you compromise on the coochie, you WILL compromise on others things. Find yourself in a couple of years wondering who in the hell you are!

Mony_Mony said...

THIS, a million times.

gregisdumb.com said...

I believe that religious beliefs in this day and age deserve some sort of mocking and derision, as they should. They retard the progress of society, and ends up causing unnecessary problems.

Some beliefs do need to be respected. Others don't. That is the truth.

Iced_Coffee_Sweet_Tea_Diva said...

Sheryl, congratulations on your graduation and your future goals! Brotherman is not the one for you, so let him walk on by. Stay true to your principles, hold fast to your beliefs.

CaliGirlED said...

"You are dating an unbeliever who will not even stick his pinky toe in church."...Not even the pinky toe? LOL

"It would be different if he was a backslider who was raised Christian and just stopped attending church." Excellent point! Because if the foundation is there, her love of going will get him back in. Most people backslide because of something in the church they attended not "holding" them there. While you can't change another person, you can help a backslider get back on course.

Natasha Hunter said...

The comments today are kinda like when your parents would be fussing without actually "fussing"... things just feels real tense but you can't pinpoint what's really going on, so you automatically just play real quiet like??? Yikes...

One thing is unanimous tho'...

Sheryl, DON'T GIVE UP THE GOODS! :)

kjnetic aka Peter Parker said...

"But of course, religious folk are all gonna say people like this douche and me are evil or whatever. "

*You* (athiests, agnostics, the guy trying to pressure homegirl) are not evil.
You're incompatible. there is a difference.

For many people, women and men, a belief in a Higher Power is important, if not neccesary. Real talk, Halle Berry come sashaying up to me and wanted to get with/marry me...but she's an atheist?
I recede like the River Jordan son. Non-compatible.

Rob said...

I happen to think that Christianity can build nations and further the progress of society. But while I chose to disagree with you, I still respect your right to say it. By the way, those are YOUR truths, not universal truths. I don't think there's a single society that doesn't have mutual respect as one of the cornerstones.

Rob said...

I happen to think that Christianity can build nations and further the progress of society. But while I chose to disagree with you, I still respect your right to say it. By the way, those are YOUR truths, not universal truths. I don't think there's a single society that doesn't have mutual respect as one of the cornerstones.

Andrea M said...

With all due respect, you're kinda living up to your screen name right about now.

Andrea M said...

David, you summed it all up.

Mony_Mony said...

""It would be different if he was a backslider who was raised Christian and just stopped attending church." Excellent point! Because if the foundation is there, her love of going will get him back in. Most people backslide because of something in the church they attended not "holding" them there. While you can't change another person, you can help a backslider get back on course."

I don't agree. My ex was raised Christian and when we met in college attended sporadically (if at all) when at school and regularly at home (like me). I just assumed he was just a backslider who would someday head on back. Shortly before our relationship ended he told me he was an atheist and that over the course of our relationship he tried to believe for my sake but just couldn't. I can't say whether or not he ever truly believed, but my love (or anyone else's) wasn't enough to send him back in.

gregisdumb.com said...

Oh okay. So when Mormons say that black people are descendants on Cain and use it to justify treating you like crap, that's cool because its their beliefs right?

Not all beliefs deserve respect.

As soon as a belief starts to harm a segment of a population, it loses all credibility, ESPECIALLY when it conflicts with the claimed morals of that belief system.

Also there are PLENTY of societies that don't have mutual respect and still survive.

Also, Christianity has done a lot more harm for society than good. But they aren't going to tell you that in church.

Oh and Andrea, real cute with the ad hominems. Seems Christ-like. /sarcasm

OneChele said...

Girl, I long since threw holy water on this comment steam and put it on the altar.

Man's World said...

My comment keeps disappearing which probably for the best, I was going HAM on folks who chose not to answer the damn question but impose their personal truisms up in this piece.

Sheryl, girlie - run like the wind and don't ask these folks no more questions. And pray for BougieLand.

gregisdumb.com said...

It's cool that we delete facts but keep posts that do nothing but serve as ad hominem attacks.

That's what's good.

Oh well.

I mean, don't get mad at me because your "truth" can me interpreted and has multiple times throughout history to harm humanity.

I however, live in reality, where we have facts, not "truths".

You can't call it a "truth" if it keeps changing. That sounds like a lie to me.

OneChele said...

Sorry, I had to set a limit on how many times one person could respond to the thread and disqus just started just cutting folks at random. I reset it, carry on.

GrownAzzMan said...

Merci'

cocoaeyecandy said...

Um. Some of pseudo-intellectuals have come out to play. No thank you. I don't bait attention hos.
Regardless of what you believe, Sheryl - this dud is a disrespectful gameplayer. Life is too short.
Get out now.

CaliGirlED said...

Very well said! Hopefully hearing this from a man will help her clear her confusion.

Carmen Jones said...

First timer to this blog and without scrolling through all the comments, I have the following to say (if Sheryl is even reading):

1. Setting aside any comments or opinions, what does your BIBLE say about getting together with someone who is not a believer?
2. It MAY be possible for a religious and non-religious person to get together as long as each respects the others beliefs/non-beliefs and doesn't criticize.
3. I think you already know the answer to this question, otherwise you wouldn't have added your strong feelings about being a Christian with your question. You said so yourself it just "isn't negotiable".

Best of luck to you

datdudeincali said...

*peeks in comments section, runs in other direction*

CaliGirlED said...

This right here!!! Never doubted whether or not you believed in God, just love how you keep it real, regardless if I agreed or disagreed. And to date you haven't failed us.

Sheryl you said you've been reading for awhile, so you know how Riley gets his clown on. LISTEN UP!!!

OneChele said...

Welcome! You picked a heck of a day to visit. :-) Great comment.

CaliGirlED said...

Accept the compliment, it's befitting,. But I love your modesty.

Cherelle D. Mattox said...

I'm glad somebody said something! I'm sitting over here shaking my head at some of these comments.

CaliGirlED said...

*right behind dude* All I can say is wow!

Lady said...

I second that emotion.

Lady4Real said...

Ahh dude really? This is so totally disrespectful. People have the right to their beliefs, religious or otherwise. No human being has the right to outright disrespect any one for any reason. I could disrespect you right now for your comment but that would serve no purpose because your views are not the same as mine does not mean that you should be disrespected.

Lady4Real said...

Great, great comment. I'm not in total agreeance with point #1 but the rest I totally agree with you

Sarah said...

I haven't read the other comments. I'm on my way out of the door. I just wanted to give Sheryl a big hug. I think she already knows what she needs to do. One of the few things I've learned in life is that you have to be true to yourself. If your instincts are screaming at you NO, best listen to them regardless of whatever other chatter is going on. Good luck!

Hannington said...

I don't think you can call what the Bible says, "rules' as opposed to standards you choose to follow, but its ur call. And as my final comment here, I'll end it by saying that I wish people didn't allow religion to control so many aspects of their lives, but I can't change that. O hwells

.tisha said...

1. You know what? I'm not mad at them. That's what they believe and I'm leaving them to their beliefs. It's only when their belief starts to infringe on my rights are we gonna have some problems. Bringing it back on topic, this cat has no right to lil sis's body. If he doesn't like what she believes he can bounce. Real easy like.

2. Really? Really you HAVE to "slam the crap out of" someone simply because they live their lives according to certain truths that have NO impact on you? Like....seriously? It is 100% impossible for you to leave someone to their beliefs and personal truths regardless of what you think of them?

3. I don't know who Leon is. I'm a newbie in these streets. But what I can assure you is that, had I been here, I would have left Leon to his beliefs, as I would the racists, as I would the atheists, as I would the agnostics, etc., for the same reasons I provided in #1.

4. My beliefs are not above criticism, but I am worthy of respect, if for no other reason than I'm not disrespecting you. And here’s the kicker: I can believe what I believe and you can believe what you believe, and this can all happen in the same space and time with no name calling, no sideways comments, and no negative insinuations wrapped in a whole bunch of rhetoric. That’s how I roll.

5. It's stupid to you. And you are well within your rights to believe so.

Hannington said...

Well, that was a fig of speech, lol. We sacrifice our chances of going to heaven, if such a place exists? If these religions places exist. People don't respect atheists and say we're bad people. Not all folks, but a lot. I've heard of discrimination against atheists and agnostics by religious people SO many times! The funny irony is that America, this so called "Christian" nation, has arguably the highest teen pregnancy rates, murder rates and immoral values than other countries that arent that hard on religion. Kanye shrug.

Earthangel172 said...

BRAVO!

JojoRaze said...

Girl, I am in your position--college educated, Bible-believing, abstinent--and I have held on--gladly. He made your body and can control you if You let him. It has not been easy, but when you submit to the Lord, He makes it easier. I have not missed out on anything and in fact as a number of commentators said below, if you survey a number of women, you will find they wished they delayed entry into sex.

You know the answer to your question already. Chele even put up the Bible verse that backs up what you say you believe. Don't sleep with this dude. Don't continue to date him. Don't even leave a parting gift. And furthermore, go on some fasting and prayer ask the Lord to guide your path and give you some discernment so you won't listen to friends and people try to convince you of things that you know to be wrong. Maybe you need to cut those people too if they are telling you to go against something so sacred to you.

You can't even trust someone who's in church either at face value. I fell in instant like with someone who was in a church and seemed to be on the right path a few years ago--bright, educated, seemingly spirtual--and I prayed and told God that stupidity is a young person's disease and to show me if this person was a good person to allow my heart to fall for--and we were just flirting--I got my answer in a vision and said promptly stopped flirting with this individual. If you are serious about God, you can't let any and anybody try to come up in your circle. You have to be more discerning and only time with the Lord in prayer, fasting and in the Word will help you with that.

The sister Lisette's testimony about her parents being unequally yoked is instructive. Their marriage was harmed because they were not on the same spiritual page. If you are going to swap bodily fluids with someone, expecting them to share your spiritual outlook is not asking for much. Same goes for him. He needs to go find an atheist/agnostic girl and leave you alone. Sure there's a half-billion Indian dudes, many of whom are perfectly decent and nice men, but I am not going to marry a Hindu and try to get them to eat a hamburger and commit to Jesus if vegetarianism and their Hinduism means something to them. Same thing applies here.

C Nelson said...

Even without religion, I start seeing big, flashing red signs screaming "DON'T DO IT!" when a guy starts applying pressure for sex. It's fine to want it. In fact, if you don't want it, that says something's wrong. It's fine, when the other party says "I'm not having any," to say "that's a deal-breaker for me, so I guess we're not compatible" and bow out gracefully. It is not fine to stay in the relationship and try to badger them into changing their mind. In fact, that's borderline abusive, and if he's this way now, he's not going to get better once it gets him what he wants this time.

Now, religion. I don't know how to answer this without being personal, because it doesn't get more personal, really. I'm spiritual but not religious myself -- meaning that I figure my relationship with God is between me and God, and everybody else is going to have to figure out their own them-and-and-God on their own terms sometime, without me getting in their way or them getting in mine. I enjoy church for fellowship and community and new viewpoints, while not letting that last tip over into telling me how I have to worship (head-covering, no head-covering, raise hands, don't raise hands, all of it, I don't care.) That's an artifact of me being dragged through every major Protestant faction my father fell in with (and we started Catholic) in my childhood years. One church's precept is another's blasphemy, and I saw that play out over and over.

So that's me. Not attending church himself would not be a deal-breaker for me. Getting in the way of me attending church, on the other hand, is a deal-breaker. If the shoe were on the other foot and he insisted I attend Sunday morning worship, Sunday night service, and Wednesday night Bible study, plus take youth group on a Friday -- or if, say, he were a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Hindu, and insisted I attend his temple/synagogue on a regular basis, I wouldn't be happy with that, either; I'd find that disrespectful of my beliefs and wants. I don't get to pressure someone else to go my way without being equally disrespectful. But it sounds like it is a deal-breaker for you, and that's okay. He is not the last good man on the face of the Earth; there are plenty of good men. There are plenty of them, even, who come in any particular faith (or lack of faith) and state of communion with God; one of them will be just what you're looking for if you let this one go and wait a little longer.

GammasWorld said...

Good gracious, I can't read all these comments! Y'all were on fiyah today! To the young sister. Baby, stay true to you. That's all Gamma can tell you. If you're not ready, you're not ready. If your mate's religious beliefs are important, then they're important. No excuses necessary. You sound like two people who are just different. Neither right nor wrong ... just different. It happens. Respect the differences, no blame necessary, and keep it moving.

Jasmin said...

Dude, you should've started your own blog like 15 comments ago.

#imjustsayin

Untouched Jewel said...

Ok, Sheryl: DON'T DO IT! If this man has to pressure you to give up the goods, chances are he's gonna get what he wants and chuck deuces and be on to the next. What if you did decide to give him the cocoa, and you ended up pregnant? See, these are the scenarios you need to look at, and figure out if all that stress and strain are worth it. Now as far as the religious or spiritual thing is concerned, HE GOTTA GO! If he's knockin your faith in God, he don't deserve you no way. There's no way in Heaven, hell and earth that you should be entangled with a man who practically doesn't believe in God. Had that been me, first thing I would've asked him is this: If there is no God, how do you think Earth sits on an invisible 23 degree axis in a universe with 0 gravity, that sits an exact 93 million light years from the sun without getting burned, not only spins on its axis, but rotates around the sun in 24 hour increments and goes through a yearly cycle of life 365 days per year, and the same moon you see in Australia (for example) would be the same moon you see in California?! Jigga, don't tell me there is NO GOD! (Ok, veered to the left, but I'm back. LOL)

Sheryl, you are young and have time for love, strong like, etc. But NEVER EVER let a man pressure you into thinking that giving up the goods too soon is gonna make him like or even respect you that much more. I got into an almost similar situation like you did in college, only I was 18 and it was my freshman year. I met this guy whom I was in strong like with, and we started out as friends, then became lovers. The bad part in all that was I became pregnant with his child. I broke the news to him, and he gave me this whole song and dance about how he was too young to be a father (mind you he and I are only 7 months apart in age). My son will be 12 this summer, and he (the father) and I haven't spoken since the night I told him I was pregnant.

All I say to you Sheryl, is read between the lines and listen to what he's NOT saying. And for those whom are ill advising you about him being a good man...HE'S THE WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, HONEY! They are giving you bad advice like a bowl of dirty rice that don't smell right. Like Chele said, don't compromise your faith for cocoa. The door can swing both ways and you never know what the outcome would be. Stand by your faith and WAIT. I will say this: Temptation is a temporary fix, but it ain't worth your soul! Let it marinate sweetie.

Untouched Jewel said...

@datdude>>>>>*gives side eye*

Untouched Jewel said...

"Cut him like a ginzu knife through toilet paper. Sharp and clean." *SUPER DEAD*

Untouched Jewel said...

Ok Hannington: with most of the comments you posted have mentioned one factoring word: RELIGION. Spirituality doesn't equal Religion. Religion is an instution that makes up these radical "rules" (i.e. no woman wearing pants in church, no red nail polish or lipstick, etc.). Spirituality is being able to have a personal relationship with God (and God alone) without interruption from man in how a person should worship and believe in God. I'm not religious, but I am spiritual, and I do attend a spiritual church on a weekly basis. The bible itself is not only a book about history itself, but also the people in it whom were spiritual and had personal relationships with God. Trust me Hannington, The Ten Commandments aren't a myth, they are real. That is what is the beginning foundation to a SPIRITUAL life, not a RELIGIOUS one. There is a difference between the two. Man made religion, God created the spirit. How do you think every man and woman created lives with a beating heart every day not electronically operated? We ALL are spirits in fleshly bodies. So yes Hannington, with her believing to wait until marriage to have sex, she is doing the absolute right thing, because it is written in the BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) for a reason. Take the time to read it for yourself, maybe you can get some understanding of it.

Jessica said...

Agree to be friends...from a distance! Don't tempt the devil!

Angel Blanca said...

Sheryl, I've got to tell you that cocoa is extremely good when it's hot & flavorful; but when it's watery and tepid, you'll need something of substance upon which to build (continue to build) a relationship. If God in Christ is such an integral part of who you are, then that is an integral part of every relationship you have. If this young man cannot (will not) be open to that part of who you are, then he's not really interested in the full you--only parts of you. You deserve better...and better is out there. With the goals you've set for yourself, consider this a test of what's really important to you and decide what role a relationship has in moving forward towards those goals.

I think you really just want someone to validate your decision to wait. That's a core value for you, and I say hold fast to those core values, as they are what help to make you the unique woman you are. If he can't get with those core values, because he values you in his life, then you're not kicking him to the curb...he's elected to go there himself.

Good luck to you on all your future plans!

Nadette said...

Well, I think Chele said exactly what needed to be said. I'm sorry, but dude sounds waaaay manipulative and that is SHADY. Don't let anyone pressure you into doing anything. EVER. you will forever regret doing something that you didn't decided to do on your own. And seriously, if he can't even respect your religious beliefs, there isn't much hope for a real future with him, it will always be an issue.

Only the Tall said...

To the young, intelligent lady that wrote this letter, stay true to your convictions. Your soulmate or the one God has intended for you will be the man that not only respects your views but will also share your faith and grow in his Christian faith with you, if and when it gets to that level of a committment. If you intend to save your virginity until your wedding night that DO THAT and stop listening to folks who wish they were in the same position as you. You will have less heartache, less confusion and more respect for yourself by staying true to who you really are. Stay true to who you are and get stay clear of that young "man" you're seeing. He's trouble with a capital T. Save yourself for your wedding night, you'll be so glad you did.

BlackLizLemon said...

"In fact, that's borderline abusive, and if he's this way now, he's not going to get better once it gets him what he wants this time."

THIS.

I've read ALL of these comments (yes, really) and it seems like no one is addressing the fact mentioned above. This man is literally insulting her intelligence, and that is wrong, period.

Coco or no coco, why would you want to even be around a man who thinks so little of you as to call you stupid? Because that's what he's doing with his "grown folks are doing it" manifesto. The fact that those words even came out of his mouth means he doesn't respect you at all and you are worth way more than that.

(oh, i'm a lurker and first-time poster. um, hi?)

BlackLizLemon said...

Sorry for being cynical as hell, but another thing: run from your friends, too. Sorry, but REAL friends would see thru this foolishness and tell you to run like Usain Bolt. Your friends would NOT set you up for heartache just for the sake of "having a good man" because they'd have your best interests at heart.

OneChele said...

Hi. And good stuff. Thank you for delurking ;-)

Alvin Milton said...

Men come and men go. Don't compromise on your values if thats not where your heart is at. Like Chele said, if you wanted to slide him some then you would have done so and ask for forgiveness later. Plus, him tellin u to not save it for Christ is like just not poppin, if thats your thing. I don't get on the religious tip ever cuz my beliefs are MY beliefs, but the devil is a tempter and a liar so the path to righteousness is not going to be the easiest or the smoothest. So if you really about living the life, be about it.

OneWho'sBeenThere said...

Sheryl, if you know and fear God, you should be fearing what may happen if you continue with this dude. We all will have our hands over our mouths saying, "Oops!" while standing before God one day; but, at least YOU KNOW THIS! It's virtually impossible to live with someone who doesn't believe that he or she does not have to give an accounting to God one day. That person will treat you anyway he feels like it. He's already disrespecting you by not honoring your wishes. Let him go.

JohnKinPDX said...

Don't barter the coochie for Christ.
Classic.

Jade Danielle said...

I'm an Agnostic Deist and my boyfriend of 8 years is a Christian. (I'm 21) My boyfriend and I respect each other's  beliefs (or lack thereof). If he ever tried to pressure me into having sex before I was ready the relationship would have ended. You're partner is supposed to be in your corner, not making you feel uncomfortable.

I understand why he wouldn't want to come to church. It's scary for people who don't believe in god. People are dancing, mumbling jibberish, and ALWAYS trying to touch you with some oily hands or tepid water. You can pray for me over there, no need to get in my personal bubble. 

Bottom line: You should NEVER feel pressured to have sex and you shouldn't try to change people. You knew from the get-go that he wasn't what you wanted.

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