So, the saying "A bird in the hand beats two in the bush" is right along the lines of "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't" - basically meaning stick with what you've got, who knows what's out there. But what if it's not that black and white? Take a look at today's cases.
Case 1) Holly has been married for six years to Daniel. They dated for two years before that. Her relationship has been... rocky. Holly believes that she is a good person and her husband is a good person. But together they are a powderkeg of drama, escalating fights, declining cocoa stirring, piss-poor communication. Over a year ago, she separated from her husband. During the separation, she met Lawrence. It was light a whole new world for her. No drama, all light and laughter, bubbly cocoa. And then Daniel came back with promises and pleas. She felt she owed it to him to give it another chance. She sorta broke it off with Lawrence asking for time and distance while she sees what's up with Daniel.
Case 2) Ken is dating a lovely girl named Kim. He's in love with Kim but she's not ready to commit. He's proposed twice but Kim says she needs "just a little more time" before she takes the next step. Ken has a good friend named Leena. Lately, there's been a vibe between them. Neither of them have acted on it though they've acknowledged that the vibe is there.
So... what to do?
Personally, I don't like confusion. I need clarity and consistency in my relationships. That whole "torn between two lovers" vibe has never been for me. Then again, I'm very much a "dance with the one who brung ya" kinda girl.
What do you think, BougieLand? Should Holly ride it out with Daniel? Should Ken give Kim all the time and space in the world to figure out whatever she's figuring? What would you do in these situations? Do tell...
57 comments:
Personally, I do not believe in gray areas in relationships. Either you're with me or your not. When describing one's relationship the words "It's complicated" should not be uttered. That's just me, though.
If Holly really wants her marriage to work than she needs to cut Lawrence off and give it her all. If she knows in her heart that Daniel will not change perhaps she should keep it moving. Either way, she needs to make a decision.
If Ken is in love with Kim he ought not cloud his situation with Leena. And Leena needs to back up off another woman's man. When people start "acknowledging vibes" it's only a matter of time before it leads to something else.
While these 2 scenarios seem the same there is a striking difference between the 2. Marriage changes everything. For Kim I would say to go reconcile with her husband. It sounds like some serious counseling is needed but marriage, depending on your perspective*, is a lifetime commitment. You can have all the exit strategies that you want** when you are dating but once you have made this commitment you are committed to working it out. This is why choosing well is soooo important.
*I hate that this must be said but it gives me an exit strategy from certain arguments. ;)
**I would never advocate that someone have exit strategies but if you are not in a committed relationship you are not committed.
I can't comment on Holly until I have an idea why she and Daniel are drama together. Poor communication is fixable. Some other influences are not, or at least not without sacrifices they may not be willing/able to make, like parents/family trouble. For that matter, what kind of drama? Some people say "drama" when they ought to say "abuse" -- and I don't care how long you've been together and how committed you intended to be when you said those vows, some things are deal-breakers.
Ken needs to cut Kim loose and give Leena a call. I'm not sure why there was a second proposal after she said no to the first one. She's not ready. She'll tell you when she is, if you're prepared to wait on her. If you are, tell her so and let her know the ball's in her court and she can propose to you next time. If not, move on and tell her why.
In the case of Holy and Daniel...uhmmm..IDK. I am personally not a fan of waiting things out indefinitely to see if the situation will improve. Operative word, indefinitely. We should all try to put in our best effort in relationships, especially a marriage, but we also need to know when to throw in the towel. Yes, you are committed. Yes, you are married. But, I don't believe in delaying happiness. I would create a deadline for improvement (a year, 6 months, whatever works for them). During that period there would be a lot of counseling etc. If by the end of that time period things have not improved, it is time to bounce. I say this under the assumption that they have been having difficulty for some time now.
In the second situation...Ken, SHE IS NOT SERIOUS. Give her a deadline. If you guys are grown folks and you have been together for at least a year and a half, she should at least have an idea of whether or not this is going to be a ride or die situation. If she is just saying "I need more time" and not really giving an idea (time wise) of when she will be ready to revisit the commitment, then I say bounce. He should not be waiting indefinitely for her.
I think "backup plans," "relationship insurance," or "window shopping" in relationships just invites trouble and states clearly that you're not in it for the long haul.
If I'm in, I'm ALL IN, and if I'm out, you won't have to guess cuz you'll be watching me as I walk away.
Back-up plans are danger zones. Either get in or get out. If you feel the need for a back-up plan then get out. You can try hanging on but no good ever comes of that. It just gets real messy down the road.
1. Holly took vows, so she needs to be more serious and deliberate about the decision she makes. In my opinion, she needs to make a decision to either work on her marriage or get a divorce. While it is not guaranteed that everything will be rainbows and roses if she and Daniel commit to rebuilding their marriage, it would allow her to be able to say that she gave it everything she had and that it couldn't be salvaged. And for pete's sake, she needs to come clean to the other dude that she is separated and let him decide if he's going to wait around IF she decides to come back. She involved him in her mess, and now wants to keep that pot on simmer while she plays around with Daniel. Not bougie. And, while I wouldn't let Daniel know that there is someone else in the picture (honestly, if they are bougie black folk, odds are word has gotten around town that someone else is mixing Holly's cocoa and THAT is why Daniel is sniffing around), I would give him a deadline by which to convince me there is real improvement and not just temporary ack'right to get me back. She also needs some counseling (marriage and individual) to figure out what she needs to change.
2. I'm torn on this one. I've been the girl who drug her feet about marriage/engagement because I was scared (due to my upbringing and early family life). And, although I feel like partners should be patient, I also feel like you shouldn't stay in a situation with someone who isn't on the same page. Dude has proposed twice. She has said "wait" twice. She isn't ready. You need to find out why. And give yourself and the relationship a deadline. If her reasons are valid, then give her a set time to get some help to work through them. If she hems and haws and is on some "but I'm just not ready" BS and/or she doesn't want to fix the problem, then chuck the deuces and holla at your friend.
Not sure what all the backstory is with Holly but marriage is nothing to play with. Once you take those vows, no more "hedging bets" She needs to resolve her marriage one way or the other.
What is Ken waiting on? Planetary alignment? Go. now.
I don't like the concept of backup/escape/one in waiting plans. Give 110% to the person you are with and if it doesn't work out, make a clean break and THEN get onto the next.
#1. Holly needs to decide if she's going to work on her marriage or divorce. I don't believe in stringing people along, and I'm getting vibe with her in regards to Lawrence. Just from reading the little piece of information, I would be skeptical of Daniel's "transformation". When I read, "Holly believes she's a good person, and her husband is a good person, but together they are a powerkeg of drama..." red flags automatically came up. I'm the type of person who believes don't force something where it doesn't fit. I'm curious on how their relationship has been rocky and they've been married for 6 years.
#2. I think Ken should have a sit down with Kim and ask her why she does not want to take their relationship to the next level. If Ken feels that her reasons are valid, then he needs to set a time limit he's willing to wait. After that time period, if Kim STILL is not ready to commit, he needs to move on. In the meantime he needs to make his position clear with Leena. They both have acknowledged sparks and it's only a matter of time before Leena is "comforting" Ken.
Love the one you're with. Or leave.
Holly, life as an adult is about making tough decisions and living with them. If you are choosing to go back to Daniel, you can't drag Lawrence thro' the mud. It is plain selfish. It's my philosphy, in times of war you have to pick a side. I don't get a good feeling about this Daniel guy. How about you list the pros and cons of both men and see where the scale swings.
Will be right back after this meeting:-)
#1 holly should be divorced before she enters relationships with another man. separated doesn't count. its like a loophole.
#2 if i propose twice to a woman let alone once and she turns me down then i doubt there is any type of future for us (unless she has a REALLY good reason). in my opinion you should know where your woman's heart and desires are when you get on bended knee. if she turns you down then its obvious that you are in two different places.
now i can't say that i've never been torn between two women. matter of fact its happened a couple times. sometimes things really do just happen. the key is to not let things linger and be honest with yourself about and eventually you're going to have to choose.
Totally agree with you here.
In particular with the second case, I haven't met a man in my experience who proposed to a woman, was turned DOWN and then stuck around to propose to her AGAIN??? Where they do that at??
You'll be suprised at some of the shiggity the brethren will put up with from some women. If I didn't know that my life is best served by being a kind person who treats people well, I'd have long been a total, grade-A super saiyan level [fill in the blank] cuz I've seen and experienced men lapping up poor treatment like it's ambrosia from heaven.
My two cents for Holly: Forget about the other dude and give your marriage laser focus. If you end up splitting for good you need to know you gave it your all so you can walk away with no regrets or doubts.
My nickel for Ken: It doesn't take seventy-leven years to figure out if you want a life with someone or not. Your girl doesn't want to marry you. That said, don't just jump into something else because you need to sort out why you're hanging on to the dead end relationship. Once you get your head right, if your friend is still available and interested maybe then you can pursue something with her.
In any relationship, I give my best and all. If I can't, that is indication I need to leave the situation. I expect the same for any man with whom I'm involved. With that being said, I know sometimes we may be torn between two people, but at some point (EARLY in the "torn" phase), you have to (wo)man up, make a decision, commit to that decision, and stop stringing both potentials along. In any event, who wants to be the "backup plan"? Not I.
Dang... this one should post correctly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkKbPxSLAY
Holly need ta quit hoeing and pick one.
Ken need ta rediscover his balls, put Kim curbside and get wit Leena.
I always say - you're either in or out and if you even think you want out... just go
"Marriage changes everything" <~~It really should.
The second proposal threw me as well.
I'm also big on deadlines, drawing lines in the sand for myself. (not for others, that never works)
just cut to the quick wow curbside
I do worry about relationships with built in escape hatches...
LOL @ planetary alignment!
Wouldn't it be great if it actually worked this way?
Here endeth the lesson.
Wow, talk about folks wanting to have their cake, ice cream and gummy bears and eat them too!
I can't with the relationship contingencies! It is selfish and disrespectful because no one wants to be Plan B. Come on people, grow up! Holly is wrong! Either work things out with your husband or divorce and then get in a new relationship. Ken boo, what you waiting on? Girlfriend don't want you so you need to drop her and chill before getting into anything else because then you might be rebounding, which raises another set of issues.
All of you need to keep this in mind: If you play, then you will definitely get played.
Personally, I don't like confusion. I need clarity and consistency in my relationships.
This... All day everyday!
Well as for Ken, I'll admit to being in one relationship and having a vibe with someone else. Didn't act on it but it was there. That's just human. It's whether you act on it or not that matters.
As for Holly- there's something else going on there.
I tried to date two women at once, I sucked at it and it was exhausting.Wouldn't consider anything like it again.
Ken - playboy. Two proposals? Really? C'mon son.
Prayers that Holly gets clarity and direction.
Love makes fools of us all at some point and time...
If you end up splitting for good you need to know you gave it your all so you can walk away with no regrets or doubts. <~~Agree with this 200%.
If you are out here drafting Contingency plans then You clearly are more interested in a safe place to land than in your destination.
A lack of commitment to your destination is a sure sign that you won't get there.
Unless you aren't going very far.
Seriously, who wants to be with somebody by default? Ugh. No. Thank. You.
Congrats on having the laptop back.
I'ma say this and be about my bidness. Holy matrimony > dating someone only. For that reason alone, the first case needs to make a concerted effort to see if its salvageable.
For case #2, I have to believe this is a case of SHE does NOT want to marry YOU. Sure there are extenuating circumstances, but didn't it occur to both of you that marriage could be the end point?
I'm out. Ya'll be good or be good at it.
I wish I would ask some chick to marry me TWICE, get turned down TWICE and still hang around?!
It must be said... What part of the game is that?
Case 1) Marriage has different consequences
This is why separated people should not be dating ! You are still married. During this time you should be doing one of two things:
1. Working on your marriage, going to counseling, evaluating the situation to determine if the marriage can be saved or;
2. Expediting the divorce process so that you can both be free to move on with life.
Bringing a third party/buddy/"friend" into the equation only complicates matters ! People do this all the time & then wonder why their life is filled with drama & confusion. See a lot of people rush to divorce because they think they have a "back up" plan in place & never spend one day being alone to heal from the situation, and work on themselves. Then they carry their same issues into the next situation. Also, there is no guarantee that the "new new" is going to last. So what happens when you are under the influence of "new cocoa" which pushes you towards divorce & then six months later that situation ends & you have regrets because you really didn't make a clear headed decision. Don't even put yourself in positions to feel conflicted. Handle your situation to conclusion & then focus on the next thing. The problem is that many people don't have the courage to be alone. Do you want to be married to this person or not ? That shouldn't be based on whether you have someone else to fall back on or not !
Case 2) Relationships don't carry the same responsibility
If this was a man, stringing a woman along, we would be quick to say,"Check for who is checking for you" !
Same advice for this man. Two wedding proposals ? She ain't feeling you man ! Some women go lifetimes and don't get a proposal & she is turning you down ? Really ? Clearly you are not on the same emotional page. I would move on, take my power back & explore the other options.
Okay, I had to come out of Lurkerville to comment on this one!
Situation #1 is easy...she needs to focus on her marriage.
Situation #2...I was surprised that no other commenter posited my theory that Ken is Kim's backup plan. She's waiting for somebody else - not in the abstract, a real live person that she knows and is involved with - that she feels is richer/smarter/more successful/better at cocoa than Ken, when chances are, she is the backup plan for that other cat!
Chele, I bought and read Heard It All Before because I enjoyed BnB so much...it was really good. Great work!
Wow, folks getting real judgmental without knowing Holly's full story. If she was separated from her husband, she wasn't supposed to look around? Isn't that the purpose of a separation? Now clearly she has a choice to make and she should do it quickly.
I feel bad for Ken. Clearly he loves Kim's non-decision-making butt. But at some point he's got to do what's best for him. If Leena is it, good for them.
Excellent questions.
Basically.
I thought the whole point of getting married was so that you could quit dating...
Ken - no. sir. No.
What Steve said...
I was screamin that...
Damn I gotta go through these comments at another time... But simple... If a girl has to question that I am not the best thing going for her, then I need to step my game up #Case Closed
... Lawrence is the most logical choice but most people will choose unhappiness over uncertainty so Daniel would probably win most of the time... (Tim Ferriss)
I would drop Kim Immediately and move on to Leena just for the simple fact I will choose the women that choose me... Also messing with Leena might apply pressure to Kim to make up her mind... women play too many games & as a man with limited time & energy, you gotta cut through the bs and apply pressure to these women
LMAO acknowledging vibes
I can't take it... Comforting is FAN-Tastic
Just date thwm both and get a threesome going
THANK YOU
good effin pint back-up plans are a reality in dating
The one thing I like about this post is that back up dating IS REAL & it happens all the time...
That is why having social value (as a man) & being the highest quality person you can be... and you will at least be the one to choose & not be at the mercy of someone's choice...
#DoubleStandard... While I am courting a woman and she is not giving it up to me (because she wants to play hard to get)... I'm screwing other women (maybe courting similar prosepcts)... But if that same woman who is courting, giving it up to some other dude simultaneously... I'm dropping her a*s
BTW... This post highlights most soap operas & movies (Lifetime, etc...)
Most Older women have been through the stresses of scenarios like this so they finally want to have a drama-free quality relationship...
But most women like the bs, that goes on in the above posts... then complain to their friends about it (or [ooops] blog about it)
Is your crudeness intentional? for attention or do you just not know any better?.
Its terribly un -bougie for my young ears.
That means you have been out of touch with reality & I'm here to bring it...
I'm a young dude too (22 Male Black in NYC)
I was the dude who believe the women needed to be revered... Me & my friend got into because he said "All Women Are B*tches Except My Mother & My Sister" & my simp self didn't understand where he was coming from, and this was after the heartbreaks...
Now... obvious this website is trafficked by mostly black women & co-signing MAN-ginas...
Let's be honest around here - EFF your feelings
In dating people have agendas & ulterior motives... & you can't be a honest person unless you dealing with honest people...
Their is a game to be played
Oh my! You are so right!
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