This week, we've been answering "Ask a Bougie Chick" questions. Yesterday, a friend of a friend of mine, John wrote in to see if his suspicions about his fiancée calling out the name Kevin during a "special moment" were warranted or not. 99% of the BnB comments felt that he was right to be concerned.
But before I even had finished putting that post together, he sent me another letter. John may be in love but he's not stupid. [Which was the crux of what was troubling me. He's too smart to fall for an okey-doke. But love, as you as know, makes fools of us all. Anyway, moving on...] Here's what he had to say... [in all honesty, he asked me to re-work his letter since it was all over the place so here's my Chele-fied version of what he said. He approved my version before posting]
Chele,
You know what? You can go ahead and use the last letter I sent but after I sent it to you, I got to thinking. Re-reading it like that made me take a step back and look at this from a purely factual point of view. As a matter of fact, I've thought of little else since pressing SEND three days ago. And in your words, I have to call bullshiggity. Who the hell is Kevin?
No need to ask Pam again, she is obviously a much more accomplished liar than I ever suspected. I wrote out a timeline and thought about what had happened since we first shopped for the ring. What was different? This is so cliché, I cannot believe it. Pam started taking Pilates. One guess as to who her Pilates instructor is?
Earlier today, she came home from her workout all sweaty. Normally, I wouldn't be home but a meeting got reshuffled so I came home early. I leaned in to kiss her and she pulled back a little and said, "Gimme a second, I need a shower." I nodded, "You should really wash Kevin off you before you come home." She went completely still and if it's possible for a dark-skinned girl to turn white - she came damn close. For the first time in the three plus years I've known her, she couldn't put a sentence together.
All I said was, "I'm not that guy." She went into a whole tearful "it means nothing" speech which honestly is insulting as all hell. I'd rather hear that she fell in love with the guy rather than "it means nothing". Why throw what we had away for nothing or did she really think she could keep us both? It's worse case scenario - she was just going to continue doing him until the wedding. Yes, actually said that. "It was just until the wedding."
What magical damn thing was going to happen at the wedding to make her less of an unfaithful tramp? [Blogger's note: Those are John's words not my interpretation] And I know, I know - I should look at this as a blessing that I found out now instead of later.
Really doesn't feel like a blessing right now. Feels like I almost married a woman who played me for a complete idiot. I did have to ask her if she ever really loved me and she said "of course" with this wounded look but we've already established that she lies... well. She wants to know what she has to do (beyond quit swirling Kevin) to fix this. I told her I needed time and sent her to stay with her girlfriend.
Is this even fixable? Am I a complete idiot to want to try? She gives up Kevin, we get some counseling - what do you think our chances are? Or am I still being an idiot? Let me put it like this, Chele: 1) If it was you, what would you do? and 2) If we were good friends, what would you tell me to do?
Oh John. It's so fresh. You don't have to make any decisions beyond postponing/canceling the wedding right now. The hardest part about things like this is that your head and your heart are at odds with each other. This is a phenomenon I am far too familiar with. Your brain is screaming "Run far fast and free in the other direction!" Your heart is still in love with the person you asked to marry you. So here are my answers:
1) I'd bail on the wedding. I don't know about trying to salvage the relationship. I tend to hold grudges for a while. It takes me a minute to turn the "let bygones" page. It's not just the betrayal but the deceit plus this part of that person's character that has been revealed. It's a lot to absorb.
2) I'd tell you to bail on the wedding and really think about if the relationship is salvageable. Are you going to be able to forgive and forget? What exactly were her motivations for being with you? There are a lot of unanswered questions you need to get to the bottom of before even considering moving forward with the relationship let alone a wedding.
Truthfully, my initial gut instinct is to tell you that you deserve better than some pretty chick who gives it up to the Pilates dude (who is probably doing his entire client list). Part of me wants to come up there and smack the shiggity out of her. These trifling heffas who don't know when they got a good man - Arrgh! Woo-sah. But I'm a little cynical. Let me turn it over to BnB.
BougieLand, what do you have? Is this even fixable? Is he a complete idiot to want to try? With counseling, what do you think their chances are? If it was you, what would you do? If he was your good friend, what would you tell him to do? And a deeper question, for those of us that have been cheated on... if you knew in advance that your s/o was going to cheat on you... would you have still pursued the relationship? Answer one, none, all or give me your thoughts. The floor is yours.
205 comments:
1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»Awww damn, the Pilates instructor? :-(
Kevin, I'm sorry this happened to you. But I'm glad you found out before you said "I do" to her, and you will to. I've been in this situation (found out fiance was cheating, in my case he cheated during the entire relationship), and I broke it off & never looked back. Initially it hurt like hell & I also thought I made the wrong decision, but 8 years later I KNOW marrying him would have been the biggest mistake of my life. Call off the wedding, and really think about if you could ever fully trust her again. My guess is you won't be able to, and without trust there is no relationship. Send her packing!
John...
What a shitty situation to be in?. You don't deserve that, no-one does.
Personally, I'd put all plans on hold and whether we decide to take things further or not, I'd still suggest couples counselling, even if its just to air out your disappointment / hurt to her face, in a safe avenue.
I would also like to say to Ms Thing: 'you silly, stupid selfish twit'. This is what having your cake & eating it looks like. It hurts people, it makes you lose things you already had!.
Pam, you are a moron! why dont you go ask Kevin to marry you. urrgh. you suck at life.
erm, you might want to correct your post
almost husband = John
pilates dude = Kevin
Such a cliche! The Pilates instructor - she didn't even have the decency to be original??
So sorry to John but NO WAY should you be walking down that aisle anytime soon. You need a lot of time to process your feelings about this.
Wow - I'm actually speechless at her lying skills and generally shadiness.
Awe dayum. Yeah I think that I would def be postponing the nuptials. For the fact that she actually thought it was ok. "...just till the wedding", bullshnickle. She was probably going to keep Mr. Pilates around because of the fact you hadn't figured out that she was screwing him yet. Like Chele said, i too hold a grudge, especially with ish liek this and I couldn't think of making vows with someone who decided to sow their wild oats in the time before our wedding. As a friend I say let her go for the time being. If you still have love for her later then maybe you can get past it but for now postpone the wedding.
Peace, Love and Chocolate
Tiffany
I can forgive, but only someone who is either a saint or has a traumatic brain injury can ever truly forget. Put her stuff in storage and call her to make her living arrangements permanent elsewhere. Decorate the house with all YOUR stuff - spread out! That means all new sheets - hell, get another mattress set - Spread into her side of the closet and dressers, dump all of her toiletries that she refuses to take with her because she thinks she's coming back, and clean out the cabinets. Inform family and friends that all bets are off on this one - but take the high road and just say that things weren't working out. Now - you might find out you were the last to know, so be prepared for the folks who will tell you stuff like "I kinda knew but you were so in love!"
Along with the other good advice already given, I recommend John go get tested. If Kevin was having sex with John's fiance, who knows who else Kevin was sleeping with and whether any protection was used...
This whole situation is really crappy and hurtful. I am so sorry for John. Yes, it's better to know now than after the vows, but I don't think it makes it less painful. Betrayal is betrayal.
"These trifling heffas who don't know when they got a good man - Arrgh! Woo-sah"
My sentiments exactly. Because:
1. She LIVED with this dude and pulled this? There is no way a person of any character is going to pull THAT kind of trifling when y'all share the same bed. It takes some major cajones to live in a man's house and do someone else. You don't start creeping til you have your own place that you can't get kicked out of.
2. Messing with your Pilates instructor? Why do people STAY placing junk in their own backyards? And anyone who's been around trainers for any appreciable amount of time knows that they are getting it in with >80% of their client list. (at least the male ones. I haven't been around too many women trainers)
3. Don't gyms have showers? If you need to wash off evidence, do it BEFORE YOU GET TO THE RESIDENCE YOU SHARE WITH THE PERSON YOU'RE CHEATING ON!!
Anywho, to answer your questions 'Chele:
No, I don't think it's fixable. He's not a fool for wanting to try, because love is a very powerful emotion. And; while I have raged on the double standard men have about not forgiving infidelity by women, all the while totally expecting forgiveness from women; I do not think this is an example where the double standard should be broken. I'm making assumptions re: John being totally a victim and not at fault for anythign that fractured the relationship, Pam not trying things besides an outside cocoa suppliet to try to fix the relationship and her need to cheat, etc. Without counseling, and a lot of purposeful forgiveness and contrition, they are dunzo.
I've been in frighteningly similar circumstances. I was madly in love with a guy, we moved in together, discussed marriage, things started to fall apart. he gave classic warning signs of cheating. I ignored it, hoping that he would chose what he had over what I thought was a temporary need for outside cocoa. Everything crashed and burned. If I'd known then that he would have been like that, I would have avoided him like I do those nail buffer people in the mall. But, you can't change the past and I learned from it, so the painful process was not a total waste.
Now, the guy after that? I knew he was going to cheat (college/professional athlete) and I would still sign up for our relationships. He was a master cocoa mixologist and the perfect rebound guy.
John said: I did have to ask her if she ever really loved me and she said "of course" with this wounded look but we've already established that she lies... well.
THIS is why you must not walk to the altar with this chick.
Wow-is Pam related to SEW from the "Dude Formerly Known as New" chronicles?
My heart goes out to John-is it never easy to have your heart broken, and his pain will not go away overnight. That said, John, please do not go through with the wedding. While the cheating is a major issue, based on the issues you raised in the first letter (withholding the cocoa, then doling it out with marshmallows, cinnamon, Grand Marnier, etc. lying, bad character on Pam's part) are also other issues that you have to consider for your relationship to continue. Could you marry someone like this? Maybe you could-perhaps you love her enough forgive her and work through those issues. However, resolving them and your feelings towards her will not take place immediately. Hit the pause button on the wedding, and like Roz B says move Pammy out of your house (hope you did not buy property together) ASAP so you can begin to get a clearer vision on what you want for your life-with or without Pam. That said, you know the saying, "when people show you who they are, please believe them." Someone so deceitful (and good at it) is probably not going to change.
Calling off the wedding is a definite. But she went beyond just cheating. It was calculated and she justified her actions. It's kind of the flip side to what attracted her to you (intelligent). I'd tell a friend that if her initial response was to try and give her reasoning behind it and NOT apologize then they aren't ready to commit. No country for silly chicks who mess it up for the rest of us.
I'll go back to comments made by Steve yesterday. Engagement is supposed to be the MOST intimate time of your life. Her deceit and the audaciousness of her deception clearly indicates that her heart isn't in it and getting married is merely her seasonal fashion statement.
Is this even fixable? NO shiggity, NO doubt...NO
Is he a complete idiot to want to try? He is NOT an idiot, because his desire to fix it indicates that HE was in it for the right reasons.
With counseling, what do you think their chances are? Counseling? To determine what? Were they both cheating with Kevin? If SHE was interested in being honest, after her first encounter SHE would have run to counseling to get her head right.
If he was your good friend, what would you tell him to do? Don't let your EGO write a check (marriage), that your head (the only smart organ in this shiggity), wallet and heart will NEVER be able to cash.
Wow :(
1. Is this even fixable? No, his finance already cheated. What is there to fix??
2.Is he a complete idiot to want to try? No, because he is hurting righ now.
3.With counseling, what do you think their chances are? I think so much will be reveal. Are they able to handle the truth?
4.If it was you, what would you do? One word, Snapped...only joking. I will cancel not postponed the wedding; tell dude to leave me the hell alone and I will try my best to move forward.
5. If he was your good friend, what would you tell him to do? same as #4 and have a lot of "me time" so he can clear his head.
:)
Boooooo Pam, booooo!
Currently dating a guy who got "Pammed" and it's a job and a half. He's a good man but wounded, suspicious and waiting for me to pull a Pam. Guys don't bounce back from stuff like this easy.
But to answer John's question -run away and don't look back,
The wedding is OFF!! He really needs to run the other way. He may in the long run forgive her, but he will never forget. Trust has been broken and I don't think she will ever get it back, so every time she leaves the house, the memories will start to resurface, if it takes 7 minutes to go to the gas station when it usually takes only five-what were you doing and who will you being doing it with? Will she ever be able to work out again? only in the home gym that he will have to provide her with. See where I'm going with this?. Get out John while the getting is good. I feel that Divine Intervention put this railroad gate up. But if you climb over it, then you know what happens-you will get hit by the train again.
Know your worth, and know you deserve better. P.S. I'd let her keep the ring so she can see what she f*'d up (sorry, got a little carried away)
Ah damn. Even after reading yesterday and semi expecting thing, damn man - sorry.
I'd cut and run and you should to. Think of it like this, Kevin was a big lie how many small ones has she told?
Pictures from yesterday and today are freakin' brilliant, Chele.
John - No Country for Skanks.Period.
Kevin's just the one you found out about. Believe dat.
Call her girlfriend to come get her ish. Have her FedEx you the ring back. Change the locks. Onto da next.
Love makes fools of us all You ain't neva lied, Chele.
But damn this is some shady shiggity right here. I hate hearing stuff like this.
I couldn't get past this one. This close to the wedding? When she was playing games?
Giving cocoa, taking it back?
As Chele said, it just shows a gaping flaw in her character that I don't know if counseling can patch.
I know you love her and you're not ready to turn the corner yet but I think you can do better.
I'd cut my losses and move on. The mere fact that she was planning on having cocoa with Kevin until the wedding (and was ballsy enough to admit to it!) tells me that this woman cannot be trusted.
Take it from a woman, John - she needs to be dumped on the curb with all her belongings, and you need to move on. May you find a woman who really appreciates you and is too much of a lady to even THINK of doing such trifling shiggity.
Btw, didn't the last letter say she was a Christian? I haven't been to a church service in a long time, but what part of the Holy Scriptures is THIS?
Son,she was about to work you like Kunte Kinte. You were the respectable carat-giving meal ticket.
Right now your foot has been cut off and you're feeling like Toby but guess what - you're free now.
Go and don't look back.
(If y'all didn't get my Roots references, I don't know what to tell you)
Whoops! Absolutely right, I was so appalled by the whole thing that I mixed up the names...
On second thoughts..
rozb has the right idea.
p.s. rozb for president
John, boo boo, run like Forest away from this tramp! I am all for waiting and seeing as one gathers more information but with this, it is a wrap. She means you no good and get out now before you become DBR (damaged beyond repair). There is nothing to fix other than your locks and cutting this she-devil off. Get in some counseling quick! Find out your part in this fiasco because you need to know how YOU almost married a woman of such low quality.
Chele, I'ma need you to start the Bougie hook-up. I am tired of skanky men/women getting with good men/women instead of other skanks!!The skanks messing it up for all of us!
*dead* @ the Roots references.. BRILLIANT sir...
NOOOOO i don't think anyone in their right mind would sign up to have their heart broken, their feeling hurt and have themselves questioning their judgement, so the answer is no I would have never signed up to have my heart handed back to me in pieces, when an ex-S/O cheated.
I agree with you that it's too fresh to make big decisions other than cancelling/postponing the wedding. i am of the place of mind that he should take Riley's advice from yesterday and just leave, why waste money on counseling when you already know that it's broken??
she cheated with no provocation, and it's not like he's neglected her, and over nothing(revenge, anger) as he said "it means nothing", I don't believe in cheating but like he said if she had fallen in love with the dude I could say ok, sometimes you meet the one when you have already settled on "he's almost like the one" and although it would hurt, I would rather that scenario, than you just straight disrespected who and what we are to get your jollies off.
Walk away John, just walk away, we have seen that ignoring the cheating doesn't work don't believe me ask Princess Diana, look how well that turned out.
Kevin's just the one you found out about. Believe dat. <~~~ truth
I don't think folks would like my house-cleaning ways. In other words "Take ALL your ish and get to stepping!"
Besides - there are some pics out there that a Sistah does not really feel like explaining, so...no running for office for me yet.
Personally, I would be done. What happens the next time she needs a little "strange?" I mean let's think about it. She fully intended to sleep with this guy until she didn't want to anymore. No matter that she was in a committed relationship with you. No matter that you two were planning a life together. No matter to YOU and your feelings. IMO this is not the foundation on which a marriage is built.
You are not married to her yet and should consider this a dodged bullet. There are 1001 sisters out there who can and will be faithful to you and honest with you. Free yourself up to meet and have real love with one of them.
Good luck and I'm sorry you're hurting.
I purposely put off responding when I saw the other post yesterday...I wanted to see how many excuses people made for her behavior when it was clear this broad wasn't worth the p**** she sits on. Not only was Chele on point then, I'll go on ahead and cosign what she said today too. The sad part is...nevermind...that would take the convo off track. I'll just say, Kevin...move on. Do yourself a favor...move on with your life. The pain will subside.
100.
*sigh* Well that's just a mess. "It was just until the wedding?" What?!? I'd have to let that one go for good. So much is broken, it would take years of counseling to even semi sorta patch up.
But this makes me think of a related issue. Those who espouse the idea that a person who has cheated but was not found out should not tell their significant other of the transgression because that would somehow be selfish and really only for the the cheater's benefit. NO. Like John, the wronged party has a right to know and make an informed decision whether to stay (and get tested). That should be the wronged person's decision to make, not the cheater's.
Pt. 2 Confirmed all our our worst fears. As for what he should do now, many relationships have survived something like this. It takes a special kind of man to know what he now knows and be willing and able to do the work needed to get through it and salvage the relationship. I am NOT that dude. I would take it as a blessing that I found out sooner rather then later (John's words). GAM would be out like a scout on a new route!
This gold digging harlot. You wanted to have your cake and eat it too. I dont understand why you purposely stayed in the relationship when you KNEW you were cheating , and you planned to keep doing it too. Whats done in the dark comes out in the light. You had a committed relationship , why do you need your cuddle buddy on the side? What were you gonna do in the marriage , just find a new cuddle buddy when yall not getting along-GOH. Baby girl please grow the hell up asap , and why you are at it go get some counseling asap.
John , im sorry. You definitely should cancel/postpone the wedding. And that honeymoon yall were planning- take it. Take some time to regroup. As for me, I would cancel the wedding and get rid of her. She clearly isnt ready for a relationship. PS when you are ready , not every woman is this trifling . There are plenty of good women out here who wont do you like that strumpet did you .
There has been a slavery thread running through Bougieland for the last few days. I agree with you though. He should be out like today is Juneteenth!
NOT fixable. John, as TC says all you need to say to her is adios and goodbye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruS_Pbg3yMY The fact that she was unapologetic and instead tried to reason it away (umm, it means something to you), after playing games with the cocoa in the first place (cutting it off, then resuming with extra toppings when you got suspicious) shows that she is deliberately playing games. As my mama always said (I guess she stole it from Maya?), when someone shows you they are, believe them. If this were my friend I would tell him to run as fast as he can away from this chick. She clearly isn't the person that you thought she was.
As for the last question, I'm not sure if I would have dated my last s/o if I had known that he would have eventually cheated on me. We were together for 7 years, since sophomore year of college, so he was a big part of my growing up/early adulthood and in many ways made me a better person. There were many things that were right about our relationship that I would look for in future relationships. On the other hand, maybe our relationship was blocking the blessings by making me unavailable to someone who would be right for me. I definitely would have broken things off about 2 years ago when it became evident that we had grown into different people (he decided he didn't want kids, etc). Instead, we just let the relationship float until last fall when I found out that he had another girlfriend for over a year (long distance for most of that year). The clearest sign that our relationship had run its course was that my strongest emotion, once I got over the initial hurt, was relief that now I could end it with no doubts.
Bougieland menfolks must be feelin some kinda "FREE" today...
altogether now, 1 2 3 HEFFA!! ... All i can say is that if the shoe was on the other foot, the wedding would be off and the relationship would be down for the count like JOE FRAZIER!! .. .Yup, so why would it be any different for a man?
Brother needs to bail on this and take some time to grieve the relationship, and take a trip to the DR or Brazil... LMFAO .. im just saying ....
I read this morning in a boiling rage but decided to roll back over and get some more shut-eye. (Home sick today.) Now I'm back.
Let me just say this: As a newlywed and someone who came to marriage later than I would have liked to, please let this woman go be with the Pilates instructor she was fucking. Seriously.
Your ex-fiance (I hope by now) is selfish and manipulative and thought she had you played. She was wrong.
Part of most wedding vows include the words, "forsaking all others". In all truthfullness, that doesn't start on the day you stand up in front of the pastor. It starts when a couple both decide they are going to be together in a committed relationship. The giving of a ring is the pledge and the marriage of the culmination of the promise.
It further rankles me, because now she has ruined this man for other women (at least for a time). John is a man who obviously is not commitment-phobic, which is something women tend to complain about in relationships these days. An emotionally wounded man is not a pretty thing to deal with. (And please don't go out and mess with someone else's emotions because you are hurting sir. That's not the business.)
All I can say to you is I'm sorry you're hurting, I'm sorry that the woman you loved is a fraudulent skank and I'm sorry this happened to you.
I am NOT sorry that you found out NOW as opposed to 10 years and 2 kids later. Count it all joy.
John, I feel your pain. You have heard the saying "Just because you want something does not mean it is good for you." She has shown her true self. Like
Riley said ... Left at the lantern ... but runnung is way too slow ... jump in the F16 and go supersonic ... get the hell out of dodge. Always follow your instincts they exist to protect you. Put this in the lessons learned column, shake it off, put her out and do a man spa day for you. Peace
Take Teddy Pendergrass' advice:
"I think I betta' let it go.... looks like another love TKO."
Kick her to the curb - TOTALLY! No reconciling, explaining, and such - let her azz go 'rat' NOW and forever!
I'm sincerely sorry for the heartbreak you're experiencing. Just be thankful that you found out before the nuptials, and know that the person that is truly meant for you is on their way. I'll be praying for your heart to heal, happiness, and TRUE love.
I think I'd march up along with Chele and smack the pure Shiggity out of this chick. She is a stupid sista who did not know or appreciated a man when she had him. There are other single women wishing that they could find a good man and she's trying to play hers like an idiot. Heck naw! I would not try to salvage that relationship. Once a liar and a cheat, always a liar and a cheat. I can say from prior experience with a cheat, THEY DON't CHANGE! Of course, she's going to come and cry and try to convince you that she's changed but she's just trying to fool you again. Stay away...far away from that chick.
Teddy P ... you said it!
Interesting you would suggest the 2 destinations where he can definitely achieve 2 things. Get what he wants and bring back what he never intended (H.I.V.).....Please read the statistsics for DR and Brazil...
Chele - what was it you called them? Baldheaded barefoot reindeer games? That's what she's playing
Now I'm not saying there's no room for forgiveness. But I would definitely advocate counseling, prayer and digging to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before I would pursue anything more with this woman especially marriage.
I dunno. I've read the comments, & I'd be more concerned with the ongoing cover-up--& plan to continue!--rather than the act itself. That said, people disappoint & get disappointed. I think we should have the same measure of forgiveness we expect from others, though each of us decides our own threshold. The fact that this relationship made it to engagement speaks to a special bond. I'd suggest counseling to determine whether this is a case of cold feet or a fatal character flaw.
"bullshnickle"? Love it!!!
"...dump all of her toiletries that she refuses to take with her because she thinks she's coming back..."
Rozb I'm with you on everything except this above. She don't get to come get her ish!!! Bag that ish up and let her know when she can stop by, or send someone by, the front porch to pick up the bags/boxes before the stuff gets stolen and you will NOT be responsible for it!
Yeah been there done that, bought the T-shirts and sold them on ebay!!!
Still need to finish reading everyone's comments. This bullshiggity right here hit a nerve I tell ya!
Side bar: I'm asking BougieLand to please pray for my brother. He's been in a diabetic coma since some time Tuesday. It looks hopeful right now, but they have to fight off an infection that set up and get his cholesterol down.
I don't think it matters whether she lied about the cocoa, the Pilates, the engagement - she has now established a history of deceptive and manipulative behavior. That's inexcusable. Cut pile.
No woman gets this bold and confident with her heaux shiggity her first time out. She is a cheater. Now if John is okay with that then they are a match made in heaven. But if not (and I suspect not), it's time to clean house.
It happens ;-)
Girl, you know Kevin is most probably not "the marrying kind" - we've heard this story before.
JOHN: RUN. I can't believe she did you like this man! As the media will tell you, it's SO hard to get a man to put a ring on it these days. I wonder if Kevin the pilates instructor is willing to do what you were so ready to do? Probably not. The fact that she could do this to you shows how much respect she has for you, herself and marriage. Be glad you found out now instead of after the wedding. Drop her pronto. If not, don't say you weren't warned.
Prayers up, blessings down ED.
And how frightening close she came to getting that ring.
The worst is when people (after the fact) say, "I knew something was off!" Yet you decided not to say anything until now?! Hate that.
You said it all with This whole situation is really crappy and hurtful.
Foul on the play. I'm a personal trainer and I do NOT get down like that. Most of the trainers I know recognize that inappropriate cocoa swirling can mess when your money. Never worth it.
Well some of the less scrupulous members of your profession have given y'all a bad name I'm sad to say.
I should check. Maybe they are descended from a long line of treacherous heffas?
That was my thing - this is beyond the cheating. The way she went about it makes me uneasy about her feelings, motivation and character.
Why folk confused about simple ish?
Pam is a hood rat in bougie disguise. Her disguise slipped. John saw it.
Now he need to bounce. Less he want a hood chick. She want da ring, da cheddar, da title and whatever da hell else she decide she want. John just da dupe to give it to her. Gangsta b*tch.
Yo - maybe we can introduce P* Poppin' Pam to DFKN - she seem just his type.
Well said.
Sending up timber (as the church mothers would say) for EDBrother immediately....
Great answers!
Girllll! You have said nothing but a word. Dealing with the recently heart-bruised is work! I wish people thought more about the damage they leave behind.
In experiences, it's rare for a man to forgive a woman who cheats though it's been known to happen.
Big lie always equals little lies.
Hadn't even thought of that!
One thing I hate is when people try and show themselves as "Good Christians" and then go one acting any old kinda way. Gives the whole religion a bad name. Clearly, Pam is not far along in her Christian walk.
Lawd! Yesterday Harriet, today Kunte. What's next? Sojourner? Chicken George? Ha!
Loving the proper use of "she-devil" - Ha!
I wouldn't be able to get past the disrespect. That's the killer for me
Girl, more like 20002!
Cancel the wedding--and her! Is there really any vow this female could make to you that you would believe?
Cancel the wedding--and her! This is a female who, after having accepted a man's proposal, THEN decides she wants to try other brands of cocoa. SMH! The truth is, what really "meant nothing" was her relationship with you.
Cancel the wedding--and her! This is a female who apparently believes that a commitment to a fiancé is not official until after "I do".
John, I am truly sorry that you've had to go through this. You are not an idiot. You are a person who fell in love with an idiot. Been there. Done that. Please don't allow that idiot's actions to cause you to close your heart permanently. Take as much time as you need for your healing so that you will be able to love again.
Michele, I'd like to ride with you if you do "go there". An extra pair of hands are always useful, aren't they?:-)
At some point we need to stop trying make excuses and call ratchetassness what it is.
Whole other post. I think I touched on it once and it was a hot mess of a conversation!
Yes, I know women who have forgiven men that cheated on them and kept the relationship going.
I'm not that girl but I wish them well.
Not "gold digging harlot"?! Love it!
Oh I am so sorry that this is happening to your brother. Prayers and go up to God for you, your brother, and the rest of your family.
@ Steve:
I'll add the qualifier "most". But, every single time I've wanted to hire a personal trainer, I have to weed out several because they hit on me in the first meeting. I though it was $ money over cocoa, but most of the trainers I've met feel like my desire to get bikini ready means I want to join their cocoa harem
I know I'm circling back, but some comments have irked me all over again...
Forgiveness (ceasing to feel angry toward or seek retribution against someone who has wronged you) should be granted, but with "choices" come "consequences". Cheating is very selfish, and I find it incredulous for the CHEATER to expect selflessness & restoration to their previous position of strength and power, from the person wronged. Selflessness is the vow made to God AFTER the wedding. Finding out that the woman John was about to commit himself to for life isn't worthy of the vow is truly a "GIFT" from God and an expression of His love for John..
And ONE mo thang! .Giving and accepting an engagement ring is NOT an indication of the health or strength of a relationship. In this case, it sounds as if she had not even the basic understanding of commitment and certainly has NO respect for the man she was about to marry.
WHO walks into the home you share with the man you are going to pledge the rest of your life with basking and baking in the fluids of another man?
Ten years and two SUSPECT kids later at that!
I'm going to step away from BnB before I go all NATO on Pam. Will be back after get myself together
Dang...Umm...let me just say, this story says a lot about Portland women...yes I can say that because I live here.
--I would stop the wedding, I would not bad mouth her to family and friends, just tell them that you thought that the relationship was in a different place.
--I would still try to be friends with her.
--If I knew that a person was cheating on me for the last six months before our wedding there is no way that I could marry them...if they were smiling/laughing/faking a good time in your face when you were planning your future together while you WERE supposed to already be committed to each other--what's to stop them when you actually are committed?
Now time for me to read the other comments...
Great post!
Sending prayers his way. Here is to speedy recovery.
Interesting chain of events. I don't think he should get married. She's trifling..but I do have a question. Has he ever cheated on her? At any point, during their courting phase or after the engagement. I'm just wondering. :)
thats what she said ... okay sorry but it was open for it
sending prayers your way CaliGirlED, strength courage and wisdom too
THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^
Riley I love you!!!
John, here's your answer right here!
Well. I guess now I have one name for the list. What list? The list of no-'count, no-good, perfidious female creatures who make it so somebody can't make an *honest* mistake without getting viewed with deep suspicion and almost called a liar to her face. (My feelings were hurt yesterday. There's nothing quite like knowing you toed the line only to have somebody flat out disbelieve. All the blame and none of the extra cocoa they're assuming is a deal as raw as ... we'll just say as raw as my nose during a January headcold, shall we? I think we shall, and save the alternative.)
But seriously. What kind of female does this? And, John, what kind of guy, knowing she did this, was prepared to keep doing this, and was all set to keep lying about doing this, is still wondering about fixing things? YOU have nothing to fix in this (unless there's some backstory we don't know...) SHE has plenty, but that's not a bucket you should be toting, as my grandmother would have said. You almost didn't catch her THIS time. Are you so sure you'd catch her next time? Or that there wasn't a LAST time you didn't catch? I mean, the way she was going, you could've found yourself on Maury a year after the wedding, wondering if you're really the father, why was she so insistent on naming it Kevin, or Steve, or Nicky, or anything other than John, Jr.
I agree Steve that cocoa swirling can mess with your money, but I have to further agree with Chele, a really bad name.
It seems to me from what you have written that Pam's moral compass is broken and she is self-absorbed to the nth degree. In my experience, people become who they are in their 20s and maybe early 30s. After that, it is really hard for people to change even if they really want to and it generally happens after some sort of life altering or kick-in-the-pants event.
I know what it is to think you love somebody so much you want to keep trying and trying. But here is the question. Does this woman (man) make you feel loved, cherished, respected, and all warm and cozy inside? Because that is how it SHOULD be with the woman (or man) you marry. It should at least start out being the best of the best feeling you have ever had in your life.
What character? Ok I guess TRAMP can be considered a characteristic!
This needs to be repeated loudly "WHO walks into the home you share with the man you are going to pledge the rest of your life with basking and baking in the fluids of another man?" TRASH
"With counseling, what do you think their chances are? Counseling? To determine what? Were they both cheating with Kevin? If SHE was interested in being honest, after her first encounter SHE would have run to counseling to get her head right." BRAVO!!!
Prayers and best wishes for a speedy recovery sent your way...
No. I did not. And would not. Ever. If I wanted to sleep around, I'd stay single.
"I feel that Divine Intervention put this railroad gate up. But if you climb over it, then you know what happens-you will get hit by the train again." Love this!!!
Hard seeing my life dissected in front of the masses. But thanks everybody for the input and insights. It's oddly therapeutic.
"Just til the wedding" was all the clue I needed on that one. You don't walk down the aisle, say "I do" and become a different person. You simply change your title to Wife or Husband.
John, please know that there are some good women in the City of Roses...
Wow, we've pulled you out of LurkerLand. Sorry it's under these circumstances. Hope all the commentary helps or gives you perspective. Let me know if there's anything I can do (besides splash your life all over the web!) to help.
Agreed! Like I said earlier, she don't get to come pack up her own stuff. Hell to da naw!!!
She may not be acting like a Christian, but her behavior is definitely part of the Holy Scriptures. Prostitutes and whoremongers (sp?) are definitely talked about in the B.I.B.L.E.
You could swing that BougieLand Live tour through PDX, a brother could use a cocktail hour.
Whole new perspective.
Great insight - thank you!
A little sun, surf and rum drinks never hurts
Get better TIH!
*fist bump* for the man spa day.
out, scout, route...FUNNY!
*snickers* at "rat" now.
I'm saying, don't let the Bougie fool ya. I can throw a pump and swing a purse with the best of them.
Amen Miz BB. Amen.
There's definitely plenty of concern to go around.
That's crystal clear.
Truth!
That's Riley. Straight no chaser.
Yes ma'am, always room for one more.
No you didn't say basking and baking.
Lawd!
Woo-sah. Deep breath in, deep breath out. Then come on back ;-)
We won't allow this to throw shade on the ladies of Portland ;-)
OK!!!
Absolutely. Prayers going up.
John - not all women are riff-raff. Just think of how valuable you are and how worthy of love and respect you are, and when you are ready, you will seek that in a woman. Meanwhile, be selfish, heal, and clear all baggage from old girl (both figuratively and literally) before moving on to the next one.
Peace out! (Do they even say that anymore?)
Aw, this is so well written Sarah!
It was hellabrave of you to put it out here but we're here for you. Stay up!
Yes playa, back in the saddle.
I gotta tiny e-crush on Miss Sarah, she always drops real world knowledge.
Where is BrendaKay - she's another of my faves.
Agreed Agreed Agreed!!! He SHOULD forgive her, and then move on with his life. He can forgive her without continuing to be with her. I understand the concept of forgiving and MAYBE she won't do it again. But if you really look at how she played it all out, this was not the beginning nor the end of her bullshiggity, but smack dab in the middle! She's not done with this, if not Kevin, then someone else!
Fine. I'll concede some trainers are straight gigolo-ing. Boo.
Sorry Chele *sinking into the sofa*
PREACH!
Be strong John! And I repeat, do not let her come remove her things, do it for her! There is definitely a ploy in the whole packing my stuff and leaving mixed with the tears and I'm sorries. Don't do it, you may not be strong enough yet to resist. Nothing says I'm done like, "Your stuff is on the porch you may want to come by and get it."
Don't beat yourself up about not being sure that you want to end it, just shows you have a good heart and really loved her. That doesn't change overnight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV9VuPkIIv4
You can thank me later.
Blessings to you and your family for health and a speedy recovery!
Dead at "Gangsta b*tch"!! Riley is too much for me!
This is so tragically unnecessary! If she wanted to eff around, why take the ring? If she wanted the ring, why eff around? Damn. There's something almost mean-spirited about it. I'd go Angela Bassett a la Waiting to Exhale and have you a nice little bonfire out front.
2 kids looking like Kevin, just saying!
^^^^Reason #287,214 I would never cheat on Amy. She don't play.
Praying through Psalm 41. Here are verse's 1-3.
1 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak;
the Lord delivers him in times of trouble.
2 The Lord will protect him and preserve his life;
he will bless him in the land
and not surrender him to the desire of his foes.
3 The Lord will sustain him on his sickbed
and restore him from his bed of illness.
http://www.youversion.com/bible/niv84/ps/41/3
Off-topic here. Rep. Giffords is sitting up and dangling her legs from the side of her bed. She is responding to cues, and they may be removing her breathing tube soon. Just watching for signs of blood clots and, making sure pneumonia doesn't set in.
How cool is that? This is one tough lady!
I would have to disagree with you on your second point. I think that remaining friends with her would leave an open door that needs to be closed. I have always had a "No we cannot be friends" policy with all ex's (not that my nerdy self had that many). ;)
What would be the point for him to keep someone around who would hurt/disrespect him to this degree?
Yes Rozb people still say peace out, well at least I do...
WoW... I hadn't considered that either.. I agree!
Okay God's man I see where you're going with the no being friends...I said be friends meaning remain cordial and nothing more.
Let's consider the facts:
1. Pam called out Kevin's name while in bed with John after a long hiatus.
2. Pam denied the name Kevin ever coming out of her mouth.
3. Pam's personal trainer is (surprise) named Kevin.
It's staring at us in black and white, and I think John knows this. He's not an idiot, but love will make you believe/forget/forgive some crazy stuff. Not only has Pam been getting her smash on with Kevin since only sweet Jesus knows when, even almost getting caught (#1) wasn't enough for her to cut that shiggity out.
I agree with OP that the lying is worse than the actual cheating, and I'm sorry, but counseling can't fix triflin' ho shiggity. I hope John cuts her off ASAP--this might call for changing phone numbers, email addresses, but in the long run it'll be more than worth it.
Thanks John, for your response. You definitely appear to be a good catch and Pam is not that person for you. With an unfaithful woman, it's not a matter of IF she will cheat again, but when. I will pray for your strength and sanity in dealing with this situation.
"WHO walks into the home you share with the man you are going to pledge the rest of your life with basking and baking in the fluids of another man? "
Someone very, VERY brave. Folks get hurt behind shiggity like this!
But this isn't even as simple as forgiving someone for cheating. This is forgiving someone for cheating, lying, gold-digging, and treating you like Bobo the Fool. I would hope even the most gullible men/women wouldn't put up with this ish.
I keeps it real. Life too damn short.
Just browsed your Twitter profile - welcome Frat. Hate that this happened but best advice is to put it behind you and don't look back.
Hang in there brother. You found out before you took the plunge. And pack all of her stuff and leave it on the front step.
I haven't read the comments yet but I'll say this situation is FUBAR. I would never be able to trust her after that and why marry someone you don't trust? I'm glad John woke up and smelled the bullshiggity. Consider this a bullet dodged.
It's weird. We were talking about this at work earlier and it's still for some reason always more shocking when a woman cheats on a man than the other way. I'm sure there are a ton of reasons for that. But either way, it's too damn bad people can't just be honest about who they are and what they want.
I swear on everything I love, we need some kind of jump squad for trifling heffas like this. Sistas like myself are searching high and low for wonderful men and these raggety chicks that get them basically ruins them for the next woman.
Leave this fucknugget and cut all ties. Don't let her come back to the house for nothing. Pack all her crap up and fedex, ups, dhl, carrier pigeons, hell strap them to turtles whatever to her temporary home. She has lost the rights to even look at you again!
John, you are obviously worthy of much more than her. Please don't give up on finding a nice lady. And I know you are out there in Portland, but don't give up on the sistas, OK??? :)
Prayers up for restoration and healing for your brother! God is still good!
LMA) - Team Nubian Queen all day. No worries.
Thank you Frat
Appreciate it brother
I vote front porch.
Ok, I don't have time to read all the comments. John, here is my advise for you. Get the ring back, pack all her shiggity up and put it on the curb the night before trash day, remove her name from any financial assets, block her phone number and email, and go on the honeymoon without her tifflin ass.
Wow, for reals?! I almost dropped my coffee mug, but I guess we've heard enough crazy things that this shouldn't be a shock.
Is this even fixable?
Sure, it's fixable on a very basic level but...does John really think he'll be able to forget that her cocoa is being/has been stirred with two spoons?
Is he a complete idiot to want to try?
No, his heart is in it. That's not to say he should, but he's in that tricky stage of conflicting emotions.
With counseling, what do you think their chances are?
I'd say 50/50 on this. Although I wonder what led her to want to do this in the first place. I guess it just seems awfully odd that a woman who is happy and *satisfied* with the majority of facets of her relationship would feel the need/desire to freak another man. Odd....very odd....
If it was you, what would you do?
I don't hold grudges, but this right here would send me into that "I'm willing to go to jail to feel better" state of mind. I couldn't forget it so it would haunt me later and, needless to say, I wouldn't trust him ever again. It wouldn't be worth it in my case.
If he was your good friend, what would you tell him to do?
I wish I could hear her side, but I would definitely suggest he weigh the pros and cons. Keeping mind that he probably will struggle with this if they do stay together. For peace of mind, he needs to move on.
This is so fugged up! Sorry "John"!
That was the first thing I thought...unfortunately, we definitely have double standards in these situations.
To the left, to the left...everything you own is in the box to the left...LOL
I absolutely love and adore BougieLand!!!!!!!!! Yall put it down with the love, encouragement and scriptures! Many thanks!
Killed? Yep!
*DEAD* at "treacherous heffas"
LMAO!!! Smart man Rob!
And light the cigarette and put it up in the air! (And I don't even smoke!)
*fist bump*
John, this is a SNAFU. The only positive spin on this, is you dodged a bullet. I know it hurts as hell, count your blessings. Use that honeymoon for a trip to a place with a nice ocean view.
"...basking and baking in the fluids of another man?" This here is the truth. I must pilfer this quote!
Put all of her ish in somebody's woodshed or toolshed. That way it gets all dusty and buggy, and you could at least get your house back!
Kevin is like the yoga instructor from Couples' Retreat - Boom. Boom.
Kevin is like the yoga instructor from Couples' Retreat - Boom. Boom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QfnDTRu2N0&feature=related
"let your EGO write a check (marriage), that your head (the only smart organ in this shiggity), wallet and heart will NEVER be able to cash". Great point.
I hope your brother is better soon! Diabetes is nothing to take lightly. It needs an awareness month of its own.
John, you deserve so much better. Now, go find "better". You were wise enough to share this with Michele, I hope you're wise enough to listen to over 100 people shouting the same thing-LET. IT. GO!
I love all the comments....Bougieland rarely disappoints!
Good lawd! I don't have time to read all the comments tonight, but my first reaction to the post this morning (couldn't comment due to Big Brother saying no no) was RUN John RUN! Having had the painful experience of being cheated on, just be glad you found out before the wedding. Now, I don't know if the Bougie Brothers have weighed in and even though it is a double standard, I think it's much much harder for men to stay with the women who let cocoa be stirred by another spoon. With that said, I'm the last person to tell you it's not worth it, but I will tell you that that betrayal is EXTREMELY difficult to overcome (no I wasn't able to forget -- forgive -- kinda sorta). As embarrassing as it is, you need to get tested just to make sure things are okay on the physical health side. You're angry right now and it's easy to say "to hell withchu" but sooner or later it's gonna hit you how deep the betrayal is and how painful it is. Get counseling for YOURSELF first. Old girl is just trying to hold on to her good man right now and will promise you the moon. Not the right atmosphere to be making promises. You've got a lot to absorb. As we say in the south ... bless your heart. Know that there are good women out there who aren't ratchet. From the little bit we know of you, I say wait for a non-ratchet sista.
oh my... I have not seen this movie..
must do it now!
More like trash bags! LOL
"...hell strap them to turtles whatever to her temporary home." I like the way you think!
Speak Gamma!!!!
"John"
if you were my friend...i'd say 2 things.
1. Do you think you could ever trust her again? because if you love her, but can't trust her..then don't go through with it.
2. Hurt people, hurt people, don't take it out on the next one
just now got a chance to sit down at a computer. been writing all day. grind time. either way. if i was kevin i'd cancel the wedding and most likely end all communication with her. it would be one thing if she came to him out of guilt and told him. instead she made some b.s. excuse about wanting to not have sex until their wedding night and the whole time she was getting it in with her instructor. i just can't deal with the type of person it would take to come up with something that conniving.
Hi John,
I'm sorry about the type of year you are having thus far. It has all been said, and you seem like a very smart guy so I'm not worried that you will let your mind overrule your heart on this one. I do have one thing to say:
Keep the lessons, but drop the baggage. It may be too early for it, but make sure that you go back and dig deep. Be absolutely honest with yourself (no one can hear you think) and think about where the warning signs were. Once you see them, make sure you remember what the behaviour looks like, and keep these as lessons, so that next time the warnings come up, you will see them right away, not months or years later.
On the flip side, drop the baggage of it all, meaning that even if you see some traits of another woman that resemble this one in any way, make sure that you don't call a foul play right away. Observe for a bit, and if all the signs align, you you she's a Pam. My experience has been however, that you may see what you think is a pattern you have seen before, but it may be just an idiosyncrasy of hers. If you carry the baggage you will see Pam everywhere and that prevents you from giving people a chance. This is what it means to not treat all women equal, the next will not necessarily do you wrong.
As for working it out, from the outside it is a given; as yourself what you would honestly tell your brother, best friend, son, etc. to do in this situation and do it for yourself - be your best friend. No one has to live with you as much as you live with yourself. I say that you give yourself at least a year to heal. Break ALL ties with her now, but know that if you truly want to make it work, a year will be plenty of time for some soul searching on your part. Counselling with her is too fresh, and too close to the action to give you a chance to breathe.
Please remember: everyday it gets a little easier.
Everything happens for a very. good. reason. EVERYTHING! The universe has a plan for you, and once you see it you will know why this has come to pass, and will be glad for it.
Take care of yourself right now, that is what matters most.
Sorry about the spelling, gotta do a better job on that!! LOL you know what I mean.
I feel for you, but don't even think of marrying this "woman". Cut all ties with this chick in heat. Sounds as if you were living together, so you were intimate with your soon to be wife while she was "intimate" with a drumroll....PILATES INSTRUCTOR. Get thee to a doctor and inform her that you don't want any contact with her, her family, friends, etc. No discussions, kick rocks, get counseling and move on. Life is short too short to live with a tramp. Seriously, do you want that kind of woman raising your children? You'd better think!
Kevin, So sorry that this happened to you, and I don't mean to be cruel but in my world this isn't fixable or forgivable. When you're in love and about to be married no other names fly out of your mouth please thank your lucky stars you found out before you spent a fortune on a wedding that she abviously didn't want in the first place. Cancel the wedding, give yourself some heal time then, find a woman that will love only you. Good luck!
I wasn't able to get here yesterday, but I want to send John a late cyber-hug and borrow from Kim Coles...woo woo woo.
It will be alright and you will get through this. You already have the support of several strangers who are praying for you and wishing you a quick and complete healing.
1) Pray, move on and pray. In the thick of things, you probably don't feel like you can or like the timing is better than it could be, but cut your losses. I agree with one of the previous commenters about whether or not you'd want this type of person raising your children, having access to your most private information, etc. While I do believe that people can change, she has shown clearly that her modus operandi is strictly about her own gain. What kind of peace of mind would you have being married to someone who would wilfully hurt you and destroy the time, effort, energy and love you put into preparing to share your life with them?
2) If I were your close friend, I would hug you, pass you a box of kleenex and a carton of ice cream, look you straight in the eyes and tell you to move on. Sell the house, remove her name from everything, cancel the wedding, call her mother and respectfully say good-bye for good. Cut all ties and find yourself a good counselor immediately. The sooner you start the healing process, the sooner you can begin to feel like a whole person again and regain a better sense of happieness and peace in your life.
John, I wish you all the very, very best in life and love. Even in your strength, it is ok to break down and grieve over this loss. I pray that your healing is speedy and the void in your heart is filled with Christ's love. I also pray that you find "the one" before long. God bless.
No country for silly chicks who mess it up for the rest of us.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Kate..
get. out. of. my. life.
developed feelings for a dude who had a broken engagement. he's reluctant to press ahead and rightfully so..but. it. sucks. so. bad.
Prayers to you and your fam Cali
im curious as to why you asked this question? as a means to justify her behavior? no judgement..just wondering myself...
my only words on this is: please dont let this change you.
the more dents in the armour..it's hard to be the same person hopeful/see the world the same way... but dont let this turn you into a bitter dude that meets a good woman, treat her like crap because you dont want to be punked again..thus continuing the vicious cycle we have of how we treat one another.
pretty please. lol.
thanks.
John, words can't even express how excited I am that you sat down and thought things through. As soon as I saw that you started thinking of the timeline, I immediately started cheering like the Lakers won another championship. LOL. But sweetie, you deserve so much better. I still say you shoulda checked her in mid stroke when the two of y'all were drunk off that Tequila. On the real John, that relationship isn't worth saving if she's still doing the Pilates instructor. She knows she was caught, and to insult your intelligence by telling you it meant nothing, isn't worth saving. That would only make you Captain Save-a-Hoe, and I know you ain't trying to look that stupid. Pick up the pieces of your heart and keep it pushing. Somebody somewhere out in the world is waiting for you to be their Mr. Right, and by sending miss "Pam" on her way is opening the door for the right woman to come along. Congratulations for deciphering through the bullshiggity!
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