Friday, November 12, 2010

Double Standard? The Nice Guy

I distinctly remember a guy that my mother wanted me to go out with in high school. He was in Jack & Jill with me as kids, his dad and my dad belonged to the same tennis club and my mom played bridge with his mom. He was a "nice guy." He asked me to a school dance, we have the obligatory pictures of the two of us with corsage and boutonnière (I had to look up how to spell that!) smiling insipidly under a paper mache moon. We were two nice people who bored each other to death. My father loved him, referred to him as "son" regularly and asked me until the day he died why I didn't marry "that nice boy."

Two weeks later I met this track runner from the iffy side of North Dallas, he was funny and rough around the edges and completely foreign from all the other guys I'd known growing up. I was head over heels. My father never let him in the front door, referred to him as "that kid" and asked me until the day he died what I ever saw in "that kid."

Then there came the concept of the Corporate Thug. Polished enough to meet your boss and parents, thuggish enough to stir cocoa the right way, throw a punch as needed but still diverse enough to enjoy your dual love of hip hop and classic jazz. This has been my niche for years. 

But what about your basic nice guy? He has a bad rap. People think he's "corny" or "too nice" and tend to try and walk all over him. They say he finishes last and never wins. If he's too nice, they tell him to grow a pair. Shows too much emotion and he's überEmo. And then there's the whole concept of street cred.

This has got to be a double standard. The nice girl gets all props. If she's too nice, people feel protective. If she shows emotion, that's just hormones. Rarely are young girls told - you need to up your street cred and get a little gangster.

I recall just acting out a little bit with an ex-fi of mine, a notorious "nice guy." Everybody that meets this guy is like he is the nicest guy they've ever met, oh my goodness, what a gentleman, how lucky I was to have him! Um-hmm. Side-eye. Let me continue. So one night I was teasing him about being Mr. Nice Guy and I was just real, real snarky with it. He went dead silent, looked me straight in the eye and said, "I'm nice, I'm not new, you want to keep it up?" Um... no. As my late great Aunt Violet used to say, "Even the prettiest roses have thorns, you keep playing in the bushes; you're gonna get scratched." Well there you go.

Let's take for instance the 44th President of these here United States of America. By all appearances, Barack is a nice guy. He's more of an intellectual than a street scrapper and even I have made jokes about how I wouldn't mind seeing him show a little more South Side Chicago and a little less Lakeshore Drive. Do nice guys have to reveal their inner tough guys in order to be taken seriously? Nobody thinks Michelle needs to be a little more street to be effective as First Lady. 

So I ask you BougieLand? Is it a double standard? Are nice guys misunderstood? Fellas, do you wince when someone tells you "you're such a nice guy"? Where's the line between nice guy and doormat? Nice and naïve? Is there such a thing as being too nice? What's wrong with nice anyway? I could use just a regular nice guy, no drama, all smiles, just-wants-a-good-woman-to-love-him-back now that I think about it. Oh... pardon me... I digress.


Moving on. People? Your thoughts, comments, insights? The floor is yours...

136 comments:

The Husky Bro said...

Nice guys aren't misunderstood.

We're told that we're boring because we get our asses up in the morning, go to work, come home and try to please their woman. We aren't running the streets every single day with "the boys", we aren't trying to fuck everything in the tri-state area, getting drunk or high and not whooping on her ass, etc.

And for doing what a grown man is supposed to do and not what rap records, Tyler Perry and John Singleton movies want America to make it look like a nigga should be doing, we're labeled boring.

Bottom line, nice guys aren't misunderstood, we're not respected.

Ijuscant said...

Nice guys do finish last and thats a shame. I love me some nice guys, I have outgrown that whole needing him to be a bit rough so I can clean him up...blah blah blah. One just needs to locate a nice guy who is interesting (there are plenty of them) and can step up to the plate when need be.
The good ones come drama free, know how to treat a woman, show emotion (count the number of times we complain about our men being so rigid in that sense) and they are pleasant to be around. Call me silly but I like that in a man. I love my nice guy :-)

Ijuscant said...

O and the nice guys I have met are definitely not push overs. They are some of the strongest men I know. They are just silent giants.

sunt97 said...

Sounds like a hybrid man. I think that it is hard for the nice guy. People tend to well---walk over nice guys. We know how they are and tend to pat them on the head and treat them like they have no common sense or are slow on the pick-up. I guess if someone calls you nice, you gotta turn up the hood or nasty. Damned if you damned if you don't

Peace, Love and Chocolate
Tiffany

Brneyed1 said...

Are we talking TRULY nice, or wolf-in-sheep's-clothing nice? I've experienced both.

The TRULY nice do get a bad rap. I think it's because sometimes they just try a little too hard and end up looking thirsty (thanks for the word Chele; use it all the time now).

Wolfie, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother topic. I dated a Wolfie. Errbody LOVED Wolfie. Thought he was the greatest. Thought we'd be married. I learned different and ran as fast as I could. To this day no one believes me about how shady and trifling Wolfie was, because to all of them he was "just sooo nice."

All that nice could be an act.

Nice girls though? That's what we're taught. To be good, polite, little angels.

The Husky Bro said...

"try a little too hard and end up looking thirsty"?

that's only when an ugly dude is trying to holla. No one would say that if they were a Denzel or Boris LOL

Ms. Jay said...

I know Im young , but I will willingly date a nice guy who stimulates my mind , loves me for me , Loves Jesus more than he loves me , makes me what to be better, and brings his tail home to me . Thug is overrated to me, and I definitely dont have time to make Pookie/NukNuk/RayRay ________(insert name of choice here) into a Preston.

blackprofessor said...

Question for bougieland - how do I get an avatar?

I think it depends on the type of "nice" guy. I think these types of nice guys do finish last.
1) Sometimes nice guys don't have a backbone and that is a turnoff. I want you to be nice, polite, gracious and all that jazz but don't be a pushover. If you need to check me, check me! You should firmly tell me what needs to be said when it needs to be said. I can admit that I need that sometimes.

2) Sometimes nice guys aren't interested in broadening their horizons. They aren't really interested in trying new things like sushi, indie/foreign flicks, traveling outside the country or even reading a book together. I am a firm believer that we are like plants, if you aren't growing, you are dying there is no middle ground (have killed more plants than I care to admit)! A nice guy who isn't interested in ANYTHING other than his regular routine will soon lose my interest.

Brneyed1 said...

Denzel... *swoon* Le Sigh*

Jason P said...

The problem is that women not as evolved as you, Ms. Chele, confuse nice with weak. I finish last because I let the lady finish first. Courtesy and fidelity are not weaknesses and will go farther in the long run. I'm nice because I was raised that way and I choose to be.

Ms. Jay said...

ooh Boris in a suit *Le Deep Sigh*

Donell Creech said...

::tip toes in, cool, rozb and CaliGirlED havent been up in here yet - raising all kinds of foolishness!::

worlds of difference between nice and pushover. nobody respects a brotha with no back, not women, kids or dogs. in fact - nobody respects ANYONE who's a doormat.

::rushes out to be PRODUCTIVE today...is NOT messing around with ya'll in BnB today. unlike CaliGirlED, opening a cocoa stand is not an option for me to get my bills paid!:: holla!

OneChele said...

First allow me to cut a step cuz Husky Bro has come to BougieLand. *jigs* Okay, I'm good.
Can I just say Amen to this entire comment?
Respect sir.

MelaninEnriched said...

I definitely agree with this, especially #2. I've met a "nice" guy recently and I'm sure he'll be nice for SOMEONE, just not me. His conversation isn't stimulating in the least and he's just downright set in his routine. And that's cool for some nice lady. I like nice guys who love doing things, may be considered nerdy or intellectual, are open to trying new adventures and traveling. If you're the nice guy who's content to sit at home and watch CNN, that's not going to be enough for me.

I'm a talker, can talk about most subjects, and have stories for days, but if he can't match with his own stimulating dialogue of his own, then I'll help him find another nice girl, LOL.

diamond life said...

Looking for a nice guy. The edgy ones have worn me out. No, I don't need a man of mystery who's unpredictable and a little out there. No sir. What did you call it, Chele "just a regular nice guy, no drama, all smiles, just-wants-a-good-woman-to-love-him-back" - yes please.

They may finish last but they finish.

The Husky Bro said...

Aww MsChele Chele (3LW song in my head now) thank you! I love Black & Bougie! I was here before but under a different name :)

No stalker

Superwoman said...

i like nice guys. in a world full of evil and lunacy, good people are a blessing....i find something very sexy about a person with a clean, beautiful heart, who only wants the best for me....

Mr. Skyywalker said...

So I was just a thug (nothing corporate about it) who has evolved into a nice guy. But don't get it twisted, nice doesn't been neutered... that's a different type of Negro. Nice means I care what happens to people other than me, I actually stop and think "what's the right thing to do", and I actually listen to the input of people I care about.
When I was a thug, at the end of the day - I cared about me. Period.

OneChele said...

Yes indeed! That flavor of nice is the new sexy.

OneChele said...

Chele inserts random Idris Elba reference here.

OneChele said...

Girl - NukNuk?

OneChele said...

I read your post on The Hybrid Man. Short but sweet.

SingLikeSassy said...

Dunno. I've always liked the "nice" guy, never the thug.

OneChele said...

Well said and I am in intense agreement with being past the point of needing a Negro Reclamation Project. Like I always say - I'm not looking for raw clay that I have to form, mold and bake. At this stage of life, I'm willing to add a little glaze but that about it.

The Husky Bro said...

1) I can agree with you on this. My last relationship, 8 years, damn near made it to 10, I was wayyyyyyyyyyyy too nice for wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long and by the time I put the foot down it was way too late. When we split, she still wanted to be cool with me. She says we were always better friends than lovers and she wanted to maintain that. Um, hell no. I don't like Trey Songs but that song CAN'T BE FRIENDS, is so on point. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. She was trying to set me up to be her "Buddy" man, the dude she could come to when Mr. Mandingo wasn't around, f*ckin' her brains out and her "Oprah" man wasn't around to tell her how pretty she was and going to spas with her and shit. She even wanted to introduce me to her new man. WTF. You really want me to blow up the house, don't you?

2) That's not a nice guy, that's a lazy man.

Ms. Jay said...

are my names too much for you ?

OneChele said...

This is on my top ten No Bueno List - the gent who cannot hold an interesting conversation. I'm only asking you to hold your own for ten minutes and talk about something beyond rap, rims and Halo Reach.

OneChele said...

Go to Yahoo! and create an avatar.
1) Cajones are crucial
2) Narrow-mindedness (especially in people under 65) is irritating. The ability to open yourself up to new things makes like interesting.

OneChele said...

Ni-ice!
I finish last because I let the lady finish first. <---I see you.

OneChele said...

High Five ma'am.

OneChele said...

nice doesn't been neutered...
Duly noted.

Brneyed1 said...

"I'm only asking you to hold your own for ten minutes and talk about something beyond rap, rims and Halo Reach." *stomping foot and pointing* THIS!!!!

MelaninEnriched said...

Exactly!

Had a guy I went to dinner with and I'd ask him open-ended questions expecting dialogue and got one-word answers. Ex. "What do you like to do when you have spare time or what do you enjoy doing?" Answer: Chill.
Put that on repeat a few times and that was how dinner went.

I had to throw that nice guy back in the pond for another nice girl. I couldn't.
Definitely on my list as well.

William Martin said...

I'm not so nice. Not mean. A little too arrogant and a little too self-absorbed. But I'm honest.
Team Kanye - Let's have a toast for the a$$holes?

tiffanyinhouston said...

Word to Husky Bro (love that name BTW as my hubs is a husky bro too)!!!!!

I would agree with everything except your last sentence. I very much respect nice men. Non-evolved women do not respect nice men.

JojoRaze said...

I never quite understood the need some women have to date "thugs." I remember being in 11th grade and realizing that I would forever love brains and nice, over brawn and meanness, after a really handsome guy flirted with me to get my Spanish homework. I literally said to myself, "You really are dumb, aren't you? Why do girls like you?" and promptly rebuffed him in my own sweet and nice way. He ended up dating this really pretty and smart girl who I'm sure he gave hell when they both went to a state college together when she could have went to an elite college.

I will go with nice and nerdy all day everyday before "thuggish."

Oh, Chele, sorry to be the grammar police, but it's cojones, not cajones. Cajon is a box, cojon is you-know-what.

HonestCounselor said...

sorry I wrote so much...I've been working on some articles and am consequently thinking a bit too deeply and being a bit too thorough in all of my communication.

JustPassingBy said...

If good girls want bad boys and nice guys want mean girls...

aishao1122 said...

I love nice guys, Nice guys are chivalrous, and are gentlemen, I'm not sure what I would do with a thug other than attempt to make him better, and we have seen that DOESN'T work. So no bueno. I like MEN, just Men, no need to be superman, no need to be Urkle either (the perpetual nice guy to Laura, but who did she fall in love with?? Stephano the slightly ruff around the edges brother), my ideal man is a sort of mix of a Buffalo soldier with cowboy mixed in, what I mean by that is someone who is spiritual stable (whatever their faith), is aware of their strengths (can fight if they need to) but is a hard working down to earth man. "thug" idea to me means trouble, while a "nice " guy is someone I will always have to keep watch over because there will always be people looking to take advantage. So a blend of the two would be better. (lost in a tangent can't remember the question, Hoping like hell i answered it)

Reads4Pleasure said...

I don't know that there is a double standard with this. Nice guys and nice women tend to be overlooked and/or taken advantage of equally from what I've observed.

aishao1122 said...

"Opening a cocoa stand is not an option for me to get my bills paid!:: "
D.E.A.D wow

The Husky Bro said...

LOL I rest my case

aishao1122 said...

You know!! Peeped it too!!

aishao1122 said...

Yeah see wolfie, is the kinda "nice"guy we all have to be aware of, they're the ones to show up to work and take everyone with them and everyone goes "but he was so nice!!" yeah NO. Glad you ran girl!!

The Husky Bro said...

Sidebar: To be honest, I think everybody is walking on eggshells around one another. Afraid to be the first to put their emotions out there for fear of being hurt.

Back on topic: I know nice women exist, I see a lot of them being dogged all the time. I always think to myself, "If I were with her, if she treated me as good as she treats that fool she with, she would be my Queen".

Shamone!

J B said...

The problem isn't that he was nice. The problem is that he's dull. Nice doesn't need to mean dull.

michaeldavis said...

Like the brother said below, some women aren't as evolved as you Michele and they do confuse nice with weak. There is a double standard, but there is a big difference between being nice and being soft.

And forgive the upcoming rant, but few words push my button like "corporate thug." I don't consider myself a Corporate Thug. In fact, I've always hated that term even though I may exhibit the qualities mentioned above.

Am I from the hood? Yes (North Philly 2-1 till I die). Do I have a fire to me? Yes. Will you ever need bail money for me? NO. I never need to throw a punch because situations get handled before it ever has to get to that. Most of the so-called "corporate thugs" are dudes that can't handle real pressure which is why they wild out, overdrink, and the rest once they punch out from work. They're the ones dancing on the sofas at the club. They also will cheat on you and have shady ish going on - I've seen it.

Most so-called Corporate Thugs are Momma's boys whose behavior was never checked as a child or young adult, and would shake in their boots if they ever set foot in the hood.

Foreign films, Belly, or Boondocks all work for me. 30 Rock, Martin, Biggie, Tony Bennett, whatevs. I can make coma-inducing red kool-aid but Veuve Clicquot can hit the spot too. It's just being around different ish although I was told by a woman that's Corporate Thug behavior. No, we are not dating anymore.

I AM a gentlemen. I hold doors, chairs, my shoulder gets drenched while I hold the umbrella over you... the whole nine. The funny thing about these behaviors is that you can easily get perceived as being soft. Not nice, but soft. And I have always been puzzled by women that rush to make sure you don't open doors for them like it's a personal Declaration of Independence. It's more like a Declaration of Insecurity. They need lessons from my Grandmom (RIP) who would sit in the car and stare through the window at the door handle on some "I'm waiting, negro, hop to it" ish. LOVE HER - she taught me well.

sorry y'all the "Corporate Thug" thing makes me feel some type of way. wooooo-sah

That being said, I consider myself a nice guy but FAR from being soft.

J B said...

I've ALWAYS liked the nice guys. Since I was six. A strong habit that never died. The boys who always got into trouble...well, stay in detention, that's not cute to me.

And "nice" to me doesn't just mean how he treats me...how does he treat others when he doesn't know I'm watching?

OneChele said...

Si, si - yo hablo español but this is my ebonics translation ;-)

GrownAzzMan said...

"She says we were always better friends than lovers and she wanted to maintain that. Um, hell no. I don't like Trey Songs but that song CAN'T BE FRIENDS, is so on point."

I'm rollin with Husky Bro on this one. I am not about to be the guy you come tell about the guy your a stirrin cocoa with now.

michaeldavis said...

where's roz and CaliGirl? just saying? I need their gems of wisdom on this here.

JaymeC said...

Well, the problem is people get all caught up in labels. The "Corporate Thug" may also be Mr. Nice Guy. The "Sensitive Nerd" may also have some Pookie tendencies. Same way that "Good Girl" may be the freakiest chick behind closed doors and that "Sweet Quiet Girl" may take your last dollar and never look back.

Soft-spoken does not mean no spine. Just as loud talking should not be mistaken for strength. And nice is a very relative term anyway.

I think what you've discovered, Chele, and are trying to impart is that you have got to take the whole measure of a man (and a woman) to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

michaeldavis said...

wittiness in convo is one of the most needed sorely underrated skills out there.

kimberly billups said...

I don't mind nice, I just don't want spineless. Maybe there is a double standard. However, people need to stop trying to force a fit. If he or she don't want you or treat you in a manner you don't like. Keep it moving!

rozb said...

I thinks it takes maturity on the woman's part to recognize the value of the Nice Guy, and realizing that Nice is relative. When you realize that nice doesn't necessarily mean chump, square, or pushover, you can enjoy and relate to the Nice Guy so much easier.

When I decided I wanted a Nice Guy in my life for real, I erased the slate, started over, and snagged a true Nice Guy. But don't get it twisted. He stands up for himself and me, treats me like I want to be treated, but he is quick to let me know I am about to go too far, and is supportive of everything I do or want to do. I still get the excitement, the surprises, and stuff, but I am also treated like a lady. He doesn't have to "thug it out" because he is a grown-A man, and this is okay by me.

rozb said...

What is Valrhona?

Jasmin said...

I''ve never been cool enough to date a "thug"/non-nice guy, but I wouldn't want to anyway. Plus I need a nice guy because I can be *mean* (in a Bougie way of course) when people don't have it together.

I think nice guys and nice girls are similar, relationship-wise, when it comes to being the sidekick/shoulder to cry on/self-esteem boost for opposite-sex friends who are having trouble getting the guy/girl they really want. My boyfriend acted surprised when some of his female friends caught an attitude when they found out he was dating me, and I was just like, "Duh--now their backup boyfriend is taken." He was a lot nicer about it than I would've been.

CaliGirlED said...

To quote a "smart guy" that I dated, "Don't let the smooth taste fool ya."

Yes there is a double standard here. But like someone pointed out earlier this week (was that Donell?), double standards are here to stay. It is a double standard because just as you stated, "Do nice guys have to reveal their inner tough guys in order to be taken seriously?" and "Nobody thinks Michelle needs to be a little more street to be effective as First Lady."

But I will say that people will take you more serious when they know "you can go there", example, "He went dead silent, looked me straight in the eye and said, "I'm nice, I'm not new, you want to keep it up?" Um... no. As my late great Aunt Violet used to say, "Even the prettiest roses have thorns, you keep playing in the bushes; you're gonna get scratched."

I don't think that nice guys necessarily finish last, but they have a slow start, get passed by often, but in the end they wind up getting the prize.

I prefer a nice balance, oh yeah you call that the Corporate Thug. I LOVE him! Good or bad? I don't know but that's what I like.

Sarah said...

I decided around the age of 30 when I was going through one of those growing up 'who am I' spells that I wanted to live my life and treat people in a way that I would be happy about should I have a moment to reflect when my life is over. I don't want to leave broken people in my wake or feel like I need to apologize to somebody who is gone. I was old enough by then to have the self-control to implement this strategy. When I feel myself getting too crabby and irritable, I take a time out. I have noticed (and the last boyfriend would be a key example) that people think this way of being, call it nice or whatever, means that I'm weak and a pushover. Uh NO. I'm sure men who approach life this way get the same response or maybe even worse. But in the end, I care much more about what I DO with my life than what people think of me. You have to set your own priorities and figure out who you want to be and then try and be that person. Whether you think you will be called to account at the end of your life or not, it is what you DO that has an impact good or bad on the world around you and is your lasting legacy.

SingLikeSassy said...

Interesting about the door thing. Reminds me of an incident a friend and I still laugh about how on a trip together we got to the luggage pick up in the airport and I freshened my lip gloss and looked around to see what gentleman was going to lift my bag off the turnstile while she was pushing and elbowing through the crowd trying to make sure she was up front so she could grab her bag and drag it off when it showed up.

The Husky Bro said...

I don't want no mean girls, no more hurt girls taking out their animosity toward those previous negroes out on me. I wasn't the Trigger Man, don't put me on Death Row. No more mental landmines:

Me: Hey baby, I'm going to the store, you need anything?
Her: Oh, you going to the store, huh? Yeah, right you going to the motherf*cka! You going to get you some p*ssy from your other woman, ain'tcha? Huh? Huh? Well, n*gga, TELL ME WHAT ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO GET????
Me: I was going to get some milk but f*ck it, I'll eat these got damn Fruit Loops dry.

You can go be in your Hurt Locker all by yourself cuz I ain't about to catch shrapnel from your relationship blow ups.

All I want is a nice woman who wants a nice man. Tee hee.

rozb said...

Nice is misunderstood a lot!

CaliGirlED said...

OK Husky Bro I hear ya! Represent for the "nice guys"! Or shall I take from Chele's aunt and say "the roses with the thorns"!

Much respect!

rozb said...

"She was trying to set me up to be her "Buddy" man, the dude she could come to when Mr. Mandingo wasn't around, f*ckin' her brains out and her "Oprah" man wasn't around to tell her how pretty she was and going to spas with her and shit. She even wanted to introduce me to her new man."

This right here is just an open invitation to pure, unadulterated shiggity and drama. This keeps shows like Snapped and America's Most Wanted thriving.

I wish a man would try that ish with me. I WILL be busting windows outta cars, and show up on the local news in a county jail orange jumpsuit with ashy lips and my afro puff dented on one side.

♞ they call me kj ♞ said...

"Fellas, do you wince when someone tells you "you're such a nice guy"?"


every day, and 2x on Saturdays. los Sighes.

trust me when i have heard all the stories about nice guys, how they're doormats, how they're week, i've heard the new ones in which nice guys are bitter previously scorned ugly guys that will show their true sadistic nature after one too many 4Lokos. and trust me, if i could i would front as a Rick Ross's cousin, Highway Sammy Sneed, if i could back hand fools in the club to prove some sort of bravado, i would...if i could spit game like those that constantly get in your chocolate cup...i would.

but yet, i cant. i'm a nice guy, that's how i was raised, and i can't break it. i don't think i'm denzel washington, but i don't think i developed this way as compensation for looks, or lack of swagger or anything like that.

wait, maybe if i go to nice-guys anonymous... where our counselor is R. Lee Ermey...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA

rozb said...

"Me: Hey baby, I'm going to the store, you need anything?
Her: Oh, you going to the store, huh? Yeah, right you going to the motherf*cka! You going to get you some p*ssy from your other woman, ain'tcha? Huh? Huh? Well, n*gga, TELL ME WHAT ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO GET????
Me: I was going to get some milk but f*ck it, I'll eat these got damn Fruit Loops dry."

::I can see the Pearly Gates. I am dead.::

CaliGirlED said...

Had a "wolfie" recently (an engineer, HA!. After realizing what I was dealing with I went and sat my behind down. I put my ownself in "time out". I just don't have the energy right now.

CaliGirlED said...

"...my afro puff dented on one side. " W.H.Y?!!!

CaliGirlED said...

"What do you like to do when you have spare time or what do you enjoy doing?" Answer: Chill.

I had to re-read that. Huh???

CaliGirlED said...

And I believe that's where the bad rap comes from. Although there are some nice, dull, boring, lifeless, stuck in their routine guys, there are also some some nice guys with some umph to them. Those are the kind I like and will put their foot down when necessary, even with me.

CaliGirlED said...

Met a guy, he called me with nothing to say. I became busy and needed to get off the phone. He called me again with nothing to say (I gave opened questions, he gave one word answers), I became sleepy and needed to get off the phone. He called again, I didn't answer nor return his message. Me thinks he got the message.

Steve said...

I'm a little rough round the edges but I'm working on being nice. It takes effort you know for those that weren't taught it or brought up around it. When you grow up around folks with the "every man for himself" mentality, it's hard to step back and make room for others in your head and heart.
And that's enough emoSteve for today.

Grace said...

Please stay you. The honest-to-goodness nice guy (not just the ones who think they're nice when they're actually naughty) are rare gems. Embrace Mr. Nice Guy, better long term dividends.

OneChele said...

uberBougie Cocoa.

michaeldavis said...

Valrhona is the best chocolate and cocoa you can buy. It's what chef's use. When I make my southwestern cocoa-rubbed chicken it's what I use.

http://www.valrhona-chocolate.com/

BlackButterfly said...

I have always liked the "nice guy" with charisma. The type of guy that everyone liked in high school because he was able to float between any group and was genuine and far more interesting. Chivalry is a fantastic quality in a man and evolved women WILL appreciate this quality immensely! As a double standard this ranks lower on the list for me because I think it happens pretty much the same amount on both sides of the gender aisle.

Grace said...

I never understood the turning down of a chivalrous act. You are surely not infringing on my independence by opening a door or pulling out a chair. And I always return a smile and a Thank you. Common courtesy - embrace it.

ASmith said...

::sigh:: I won't lie, 'Chele, cause this is BougieLand and I can't lie here...

I have to ::deep breath:: with the overly emo guy, but I will get slick upset with a man who can't express his feelings. I know. I know. I'm sincerely apologetic to my brethren for this unfair way of being.

I know an emo guy who's a great catch, really he is. He listens, he cares, all a dat, but I could NOT date him. He's too emo! Needy! Wanting! Don't text me and then call me when I don't respond fast enough. Don't do that. Don't leave me a vm that's all upset cause you wanted to talk to me and I didn't pick up. That's stalkerish.

Is it fair? No it is not.

::looks down::

Poor nice guys. I really am going to try harder to not be so... itchy about you... Precious men. Precious. SMH at myself. Let me stop right here.

rozb said...

Girl - mugshots and newsclips for regular folk ain't ever elegant. Dented on one side from pushing my head down to get in the patrol car.

I'm just sayin'...never happened before, but I could only imagine...

Sarah said...

Southwestern cocoa-rubbed chicken? Care to share the recipe? I'll offer one in trade although it really isn't a recipe. I can't do dairy or sugar anymore and with all this talk about chocolate here I had to find some way to have some: 1 heaping tsp of almond butter, 1 less than full tsp of unsweetened cocoa, and honey to desired sweetness. Yum. I'm going to save the link to Valrhona chocolate to try some of their unsweetened cocoa.

GrownAzzMan said...

"Don't let the smooth taste fool ya."

I have been know to use that one from time to time.

CorettaJG said...

I like nice guys, I really do, and they like me. But, they just seem to remain in friend zone. The snap, crackle and pop hasn't been there like it is with that dang reformed rake. (I'm not talking thuggish though, I don't deal with that.)

I don't want to feel like I can "run over" the man. I need the nice guy with some backbone who is willing to put his foot down every once in awhile, take the lead and not necessarily defer to me on everything. It needs to be balanced.

thinklikeRiley said...

No time to be nice, I gotta be real. You may could get a feeling or two hurt behind that but at least you know where I stand. I ain't evolved enough in my bouge to be TeamRiley and TeamYou so uh - Imma stick with TeamRiley for now.

CaliGirlED said...

For me, personally, when I used the term Corporate Thug, there's not much emphasis on the "thug". It's just a way of naming a balanced guy, who's educated, business savvy, has a diverse array of social skills can hold it down with me, respect me as a woman, treats me right, and will protect me if need be. However I do try to keep myself out of situations where protection is needed.

CaliGirlED said...

"I finish last because I let the lady finish first." *ahem* Where do you live?

CaliGirlED said...

Oh I see Donell has jokes!

"nobody respects ANYONE who's a doormat"...excellent point.

And the cocoa stand that he made reference to was about one of my comments that got erased. I said, "I'm going to get fired messin around in Bougieland. Then I'm going to have to sell the cocoa so that me and babygirl can eat."...You are funny Donell! (Or maybe jealous cause my cocoa stand would be more successful than yours?) LOL j/k, hey it's Friday!

CaliGirlED said...

Exactly!

CorettaJG said...

Women definitely have to be retrained on some of the chivalrous things. I give definite side-eye to guys who don't open building doors, but then I forget about the car door. I've been talked about at least twice for hopping out of the car before they guy had a chance to come around and open the door for me. One guy said his mother would also just sit in the car until he or his brothers returned.

I like and generally expect all of the well-rounded qualities you described. I just want all of that and chemistry too. Part of the chemistry thing for me is knowing that we are balanced when it comes to leadership in the relationship (backbone). The man has to be the man.

LikeLena said...

I like just a little sandpaper with my silk if ya know what I mean. I just like what I like.

LikeLena said...

Negro Reclamation Project - STEALING IT!!!!

CaliGirlED said...

Speechless! Good point though.

Jasmin said...

^^^That's my boyfriend. I promise I'm not a White guy pretending to be a Black woman! :-)

OneChele said...

LOL - Okay then ;-)

Pure Choco said...

Forgive me if I off-topic gush for a minute. This blog rocks. The intelligent posts and engaging comment community (and it is a feeling of community) keep me nodding, smiling and learning every day. And to be brutally honest, some of the men have restored my faith that decent dudes exist even if it's only on blogosphere. Thank you, Chele for BougieLand.

David Chase said...

My last girlfriend told me I was "nice to a fault" - :-\
This ticked me off when I realized this meant she thought I would put up with all manner of shiggity.
I agree with your ex-fi "nice don't mean new" - nice guys have egos and tempers too, we just know how to control them.

CaliGirlED said...

Well maybe I'm using a term that I shouldn't. Because to me what you just described, "Most of the so-called "corporate thugs" are dudes that can't handle real pressure which is why they wild out, overdrink, and the rest once they punch out from work. They're the ones dancing on the sofas at the club. They also will cheat on you and have shady ish going on - I've seen it.", is not what that means to me. So perhaps the term, as with many, has taken on different meanings for different people.

"I AM a gentlemen. I hold doors, chairs, my shoulder gets drenched while I hold the umbrella over you... the whole nine." As you should. If a woman doesn't appreciate, keep it movin!

"...Grandmom (RIP) who would sit in the car and stare through the window at the door handle on some "I'm waiting, negro, hop to it" ish." Gotta love that!

FreeBlackMan said...

Well alright then. Ruffnecks need love too.

CaliGirlED said...

Cali's been working today! I'm hitting and missing, AND mad that I can't spend all day like I did yesterday. LOL

CaliGirlED said...

Does he have a brother?

OneChele said...

You know it's a fine line between attentive and stalkery, uberEmo dudes tend to cross it. (remember "You are My Air" dude?) No sir. I want affection and attention not adoration and adulation. You have to draw the line and back them down and if they still don't get it...

michaeldavis said...

it's the best.... I have some hood cooking twitvids on my twitter page. one involves this recipe

michaeldavis said...

find me on twitter and I'll e-mail you the recipe. @dallasprogress

CaliGirlED said...

Yeah I've been told about getting out of the car on my own too. I forget, sorry. But I will laser beam side-eye a ninja when he walks to his door without opening mine first. Really?

Hidi said...

Is it a double standard? Yes. I've heard women complain about a guy being "too nice".

Are nice guys misunderstood? I think they are. You know what, "nice guy" seems like an insult. Like there is something wrong with being nice; I guess people rather be treated like the scum of the earth instead of being treated with plain old traditional respect. I don't know. People confuse me sometimes. I prefer the "nice guy" (never been attracted to thugs or wanna be...they annoy me). Anyway, "nice guys" always finish first with me. :)

CaliGirlED said...

I must admit, I was wondering who had crept up in Bougieland. *putting phone away, no need to call the police*

CaliGirlED said...

So appreciate the honesty! And as G.I. Joe said, "Knowing is half the battle."

CaliGirlED said...

TeamRiley vs. Wolfie? TeamRiley for being honest and upfront, at least you know what you're dealing with. Or you can choose not to deal, I just don't like being tricked! Ninja unzip that sheep clothing and the wolf jumps out, you don't know whether to fight, run or faint.

CorettaJG said...

Exactly. Getting in the car, I remember and he needs to get it right, getting out of the car, I forget. But that's not every guy. I've been left sitting before too. *Hmph* But, I'm going to try to remember for the time when I have a son. She can let him know if it's too much.

michaeldavis said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFBiXfr849g

JJ Fad said...

After dating a few nice guys, I am a reformed corporate thug lover. Keep in mind that nice does not mean problem free, if you don't know what you want and have it together nice will not save you over in these parts.

Sasha in Stilettos said...

I just like men. Nice, naughty and everyone in between (yes, I recognize my issues). But as long I can get along with them, I don't put a label on it.

Sasha in Stilettos said...

Wow. That's real. Thank you emoSteve.

The Husky Bro said...

Ruffnecks get more than enough love, our taxdollars help feed and clothe their kids.

rozb said...

Nah - only one of 'em. But if I find someone Bougieland-worthy I will pass the info along!

Ms. Jay said...

Southwestern cocoa-rubbed chicken .... sounds good. Fed-ex some to chicago please

MelaninEnriched said...

LOL!

MotownMs said...

"'nice guys' always finish first with me. :)" ...and nice does not mean dull and boring...;-)...

Only the Tall said...

I'm with you. Never dated a thug, never hung out with "corporate thug" either, give me nice guy any day of the week. It's like most women now a days want to hang out with Shaft who works on Wall Street. Um, no.

Only the Tall said...

just make sure when he "puts his foot down" that it doesn't land on you.

Only the Tall said...

Wow! Um, if someone talked to me like that, I'd head for the hills! That box of crazy deprived you of milk?! No one and I mean NO ONE comes between me and my breakfast!
"Hurt Locker' Hilarious!

Only the Tall said...

walks over to your table..."Excuse me, may I sit here?"

Sarah said...

I haven't joined the Twitter universe yet. Hesitant about having any more of an electronic footprint than I already have. This has sparked an idea, though, and I went web searching a bit. I never would have thought about including cocoa in a spice mixture to put on meat. Lots of ideas to experiment with.

GammasWorld said...

There's a fine line between being nice and tolerating shiggity ... DudeFormerlyKnownAsNew and shiggity with SEW was perfect example of nice gone too damn far. With that said, it took me a long time to understand that nice was not boring ... it's just nice. I think about the guy in high school that liked Gamma ... if I saw him now I'd probably be running after him Shug Avery style yelling "I'z ready now".

maureen palmer said...

I'm in agreement with you, the men here definitely restored my faith too. I was having the same discussion with one of my cubemates who has lost faith in men. I tried to drag her to BnB, but she does not do social network, but I make a point of telling her about BnB during our lunch hour.

maureen palmer said...

I like nice guys. My ex was very a nice guy, I remember a friend telling me; u two are too similiar to be together. I have to admit, I can be doormat, working on it ( I got it from my mama). With that said,ex was nice, but had backbone and had a way of saying STOP this is red light district.

maureen palmer said...

I'm asking the same thing, the visual is killing me. Did she say say "ashy lips"? I'm done. I'm going to need BnB to have a warning label, "read at your own risk, you will cry your eye ducts out".

CaliGirlED said...

Especially with Roz's comments. I've learned not to eat or drink when reading her comments. LOL

CaliGirlED said...

Yeah the guys in Bougieland seem to be pretty cool.

CaliGirlED said...

Not Shug Avery style! *dead*

nubianqueenbeez said...

@Sarah,
I like how you look at life. I feel the same way. I strive to treat others the way that I would want to be treated. People do take your kindness for weakness. I might not be all up in your face if you did me wrong but that didn't mean I didn't notice. I choose to pray, sit back, and let God handle it -and believe me, He does. Now if I need to say something I handle it without loud mouthing, creaming, cussing. It's just not me. When you live your life as a nice person people just don't understand. And that's ok.

Page Bartlett said...

I don't 100% trust nice. Terrible, I know but experience tells me that nice is sometimes a cover for something else.

nubianqueenbeez said...

so the chicken gets all that good chocolate rubbing, patting and massaging?
Can I sign up for one of those?

ConvertingMe said...

Five words. I. Need. To. Meet. Rozb. You, me and several bottles of alcoholic fun.

I WILL be busting windows outta cars, and show up on the local news in a county jail orange jumpsuit with ashy lips and my afro puff dented on one side. <---Flatline, Dead, Revived and fall down dead again.

I received one of those chain emails that said. A friend will try to talk you out of ish and have bail money if you need it. A good friend will help you plan the caper. A great friend will be sitting in the cell next to you.

bluntposter said...

Interesting comment. All of it. However, I did not know Leon's character was nice. With the exception of Gregory Hines character, I thought "relationship wise" the rest of the characters suck. Much as I admired the women, I sometimes thought the made mistakes and had flaws that may not have helped choices. I am sure though, that this is hard to see in a relationship but that was just my observation.

Chienpsu said...

First time here. Great Stuff! I was that nice guy in College. Women, especially black women, found no use for me. I was not from the right city, not a ballplayer, not a thug and just all around too nice. The first guy you called to get a ride home when your asshole boyfriend left you!. It actually took me changing my game, I called it T.D.A.D (Those Days Are Done), and added a little asshole to my game and BOOM!! All of a sudden, I had women all over me! I was amazed. Today I tell the young men and women who enter my University this:Ladies remember, the Boys you train today, will become the Men you can't marry tomorrow.

Brittany Geneva said...

Absolutely. I'm sorry if it sounds rude but a guy that's too nice is a turnoff. In the same way that you don't want a bunch of "yes man" friends who always tell you what you want to hear, you don't want an overly nice guy who always gives in and never disagree, argues, or puts up a fight. Women like a challenge too and very often nice guys are just too easy.

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