Ya'll join me in welcoming Miz BB Waite out of the comments section to her first guest post. Miz BB is a retired teacher married for over 20 years to frequent commenter Mocha Dude Speaks. She is a full-time volunteer everywhere teaching folks how to be better folks. Better mothers, brothers, lovers, cooks, parents, spouses, church members, students, gardeners… you name it, she's trying to make it better. She's had a few things on her mind and asked if she could share… show Miz BB some love ya'll.
Hi everybody, let me first thank Chele for allowing my thoughts to be posted and for basically re-writing my thoughts so they made sense. Here goes:
Chele, Jayme and I met at a church function. It was a seminar on "Recognizing the Real in your Relationships". We were the only three who sat near the back with our lips tightly zipped and hadn't shared inappropriate details about our sex lives or overshared issues in our current relationships. At one point, the seminar was so outlandish that we shared a "this can't be real" look amongst ourselves. It was a church function but that didn't seem to stop people from telling the most graphic indiscreet relationship stories imaginable. Finally, the class moderator noticed that we hadn't added anything to the discussion. "You all don't have to be so reserved… feel free to share." Michele said, "But I am reserved, naturally. Thank you."
Okay?! It was all we could do not to high five her right there. After the class, the three of us went out for snacks (okay, drinks). Even then, we were friendly but politely distant. It's been 6 years and there are still some things Jayme, Michele and I just don't discuss. You can be friends, even good friends without getting knee-deep into each other's business. There are some boundaries that it's just inappropriate to cross.
That's a lost art apparently, knowing what's inappropriate to share and what you keep close to your vest?
I read (with much cosigning) Carolyn Edgar's post about the legitimizing (legitimization?) of "hoe-dom." I'm a bit older than Chele and most of her readers so I came up in a time when people didn't discuss the state of their marriages. Not that their marriages were any better, they just weren't talked about. And you most certainly did not talk about infidelity. If you were being cheated on, you dealt with it. If you were doing the cheating, you kept it to yourself. I'm a Bible-Beater, I'll own that. So I can't get my head around sin being celebrated like it's something to be proud of. When people did wrong, they were spoken of in hushed tones, "She is going through some things right now. Pray for her." That covered a world of evil-doing and we were happy that way. We gossiped behind closed doors. Facebook, twitter, email, 24/7 news, instant messaging, camera phones, YouTube and texting have made "behind closed doors" a concept for the history books.
"Keeping your own counsel" – that's a goner too.
I'll admit to being old-fashioned in thought, customs and deeds. I just got to the point where I don't wear pantyhose to church. I still won't wear jeans to church, even if it's just for choir rehearsal. I wouldn't let my daughter date until she turned 16. I finally joined Twitter just so I could comment on Chele's blog. I think I've tweeted 15 times, usually to the girls to say "Call me" or "Read your email." The kids say I'm Old School. But sometimes the old school endures because it's the best school. My marriage has endured because I fashion my relationship after my grandparents. She ran the house but let him run everything else (or let him think it anyway). She believed in picking your battles and only going to the mat for the things you felt most strongly about.
I let Mr. Waite think he's a financial wizard (he would stay overdrawn if it wasn't for me). He compliments me on how nice the house looks (pretending not to know that I have housecleaners in twice a week). I don't argue with my husband in public, I wait to smack my kids upside the head until we get home, and I only raise my voice in public if someone's in mortal danger. I know I'm a throwback. But it works for me. I watch in shocked dismay as couples tear each other apart, in public, on television, in front of the kids. I just saw yesterday where Larry King's old butt was supposedly having an affair with his wife's sister - why did we need to know that and can we just call Viagra the devil's tool?
Not airing the dirty laundry – guess we'll place that next to the rotary phone in the Smithsonian.
One of the things I love about this blog is that we can discuss things. Under the guise of "anonymity" and "sharing for the greater good" we have an opportunity to discuss things (some that I wouldn't normally talk about) without getting overly personal or classless (mostly, every now and then someone gets buck wild in the comments section). But I wonder… am I the only one who wonders where the little subtleties went? Why everything has to be shared and shouted and printed in bold large font? Or as Chele says… Is it just me?
What say you, BougieLand? Comments, thoughts, insights? The floor is yours.
60 comments:
It's gotten to the point for me where I don't look or listen to the news because I'm simply not interested in all the shiggity and OVEREXPOSURE of folk. I am a private person and I'm notorious for keeping folk out of my business and some things I just don't need or want to know about you, thank you.
I'm like you, I'm usually the one with the O_o look of her face because I just can't believe so and so has just said and spoken so very plainly about this, that, and the other. I have a problem with people asking my private business...no darling I'm not about to discuss how Mr Raven is or is not hitting "it" right...hmph.
Subtlety and congeniality have gone from public discourse for some time now. Part of it is that home training has become a rarity. I still remember being taught how to sit in a dress, wear stockings, and show discretion at public venues. I admit that I will yell at someone to move out of my way if I am sitting in traffic behind someone who has zoned out, but I don't like having to look at public fighting between lovers, and every tabloid is throwing theses recent scandals in your face like confetti at a parade.
Jerry Springer, Maury Povich, and others are harbingers of these latest trends to air dirty laundry for everyone to see, and people involved in the latest sordid non-event. Eliot Spitzer's call girl is on the cover of Playboy, everybody who has slept with Tiger has a book or is going on a talk show, and even John Edward's (whatever she is) is going on the talk show circuit. It is only going to get worse before it gets better (that's the cynic in me).
Amen!
I enjoyed reading your thoughts. There are a couple of times I've later felt like I over-shared here. I'm thankful that Michele and her readers are gentle folks :-) Speaking of lack of courtesy, yesterday, when I was coming back from running errands, a man in a truck zoomed up behind me. When I looked in the rear view mirror, he was waving his hand in a gesture of exasperation at my not going faster. My first thought was 'is that really necessary.' And the second thought was if your gesturing at me with one hand and holding your phone with the other, who is steering the car? (I was driving the speed limit. I know where the cops sit and it isn't me that is going to get a ticket.)
::slow clap::
I can't even begin to tell of the things that people tell me. Unprovoked. I mean -- just ALL KINDS OF WACKY. And I always stop and I think and I go -- no, I would never tell someone the specific details of a sexual act I involved myself in last night. I think people do it these days for the attention and to me that's what's most annoying. Detailing things that just do not need to be detailed. I mean "I had a good time" suffices. It really does.
The flip side of this phenomenon is that people expect to know all your business. Friends think that after every date you should hit them up with the nitty gritty. That once you're in a relationship, you should let them know everything. If there's one lesson I learned, and learned the hard way, it's that everybody can't know everything. Some stuff you just gotta keep to yourself... there's a certain air of "do-it-yourself" that's lost. We want all our BFFs and cousins and aunties and mamas to weigh in on issues that, quite frankly, oughta be kept to self. Or at least not shared with people who know you so well.
I think that's one plus to keeping a relative level of anonymity on the innerwebs. You can ask people you (kinda) know for advice without having to air your dirty laundry to people you know. Talking bad about your boyfriend to your sister all the time, and then expecting her to treat him well when ya'll show up for Sunday dinner will just not go over as well as we'd like to think. But me? Well I don't know you, or your sister and odds are how I treat your boyfriend won't ever matter..
It's all about keeping it real. I act pretty much the same way that the post describes, i'm not going to argue in public, put business out there, etc. but it seems like this current incantion of society LOVEEEESSSSS to keep it real...whoever can keep it realer, really-real, it's so marvelous and grand...i gotta air you out, because i gotta keep it real, yaddayadda...
discretion/keeping it right > keepin' it real.
At the risk of ticking some of the womenfolk off, let me say that a woman who thinks like this and is single in my age range is VERY hard to find. I'm beginning to think she does not exist.
This topic discussion is long overdue in my opinion. I am the person at the office that people whisper about because I keep to myself. Don't get me wrong, I smile and am friendly and helpful on a regular basis. I chit chat and make small talk, but that's really as far as it needs to go. I got called out in my annual review because "no one can tell when I am having a bad day." Really? WTH? Since when is that a bad thing? Why do you need to know that my husband and I had a disagreement with what direction the toilet paper should go and why he thinks the kids should dress themselves in red cowboy boots, pink tutu's and pajama tops when we go out for dinner?
I have a co-worker who thinks that I can relate to her marital and financial stresses because she feels so close to me and she just thinks so much of our friendship...need I mention that these are all mental constructs on her behalf? She got mad at me one day because my response to one of her questions was quite succinct (read curt) and to the point. She made the comment that I don't have any pictures of my family on my desk. "I am afraid to approach you because you seem so closed off. Getting information from you is like pulling teeth." Come the eff on. What is it that you've done that makes you think I OWE you my life story? Hmm?
These statements were made because I made and still make it very clear that I am and will remain a private person. This does not mean that I am anti-social or that I will not be cheerful and warm, but you do not need to know me beyond my capacity here at work. I will not be sharing all my business with you and would really rather prefer you didn't share yours with mine unless I invite the discussion, but don't worry...I never will. There are a particular group(s) of people that seem to take deep issue with this approach. Oh well.
Manners and etiquette and general common sense along with "home training" seem to be in great shortage these days. Maybe the marketing and ad crew for Las Vegas has it right...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Let what happens in your bedroom/relationship/credit history/bank accounts/etc. stay there. Srsly.
I would back flip right now if I had the ability to do so! YESSS! If I had a dime for every time someone said - Amy, don't be so shy. I'm not being shy - I'M MINDING MY OWN BIDNESS! Please do the same.
Maybe you're not looking in the right places?
"(I was driving the speed limit. I know where the cops sit and it isn't me that is going to get a ticket.)"
I know that's right!!!
or...she's right under your nose BUT because she's just like as described you don't notice....the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Filters <-- this is what people have lost along the way.
The age of "reality" overload has apparently opened the door for every and any body to feel like its OK to share their business with every and any body. My home girl and I were just recently lamenting on the recent celebrations of hoe-dom...since when did it become OK to not "stay in your lane"?!?!? Not that I'm condoning infidelity - but back in the day the side chick knew her place...at the side! Not to mention that once you jump out your place publicly, you no longer qualify for side-chick status because you lack discretion...and you DEFINITELY don't qualify for wife status. So after your 15 minutes of fame have faded, what exactly do you hope to gain? *sigh*
I personally have never been one to share - even with my close friends nitty gritty details are hard to come by - I just believe some things are meant to be kept to yourself.
But I agree, this is just a symptom of the larger societal problem of people not acknowledging and respecting the line between public and private. I blame "reality" TV!
No ma'am - this type of woman is few and far between. Cue Heavy D's Someone for Me: I've searched High and I've Searched Low...
Go BB, this is on point! Next, who is sleeping with Larry King for goodness' sake? I'd sooner bed the Crypt Keeper. And finally, people have just lost DISCIPLINE. The discipline to raise their kids, act like they got some sense and present a put together front for the world to see. Even on my worst days you will not catch me looking like the bottom of someone's shoe and searching for sympathy from strangers.
p.s. Now I have to step up my guest post game... ;-)
I have found that the "more real" people keep it, the more full of shiggity they are..
If she could just raise her hand or something?! All I see are the high-maintenance hoochies. Present BougieLand company excluded of course.
Great post. Completely on point. Before this comment section turns into a "No Good Men/No Good Women" slingfest, I'll just say if it was easy to find, would we appreciate it when we finally found it? That woman who appreciates what Miz BB is talking about is clearly out there, many of them answered this post. People need to learn that all that glitters isn't gold - look beyond the bling and I bet you find something good. I'm rambling but ya feel me?
agreed.
*insert the "well if you looked here here and here" statements*
Visualize with me...You're at a bar( club, church function, 1st Fridays (lol) insert whatever here) and you see the loud "high-maintenance hoochie right?" Avert your eyes to the left or right for a second. See the lady who sitting there looking like she has something on her mind or even is just sitting there quietly or even looking at said "hoochie" with a "wth" look oh her face? Observe her for a few minutes...I'll bet she's one of the ladies you're looking for.
"I don't argue with my husband in public, I wait to smack my kids upside the head until we get home, and I only raise my voice in public if someone's in mortal danger."
We need more of this wise counsel. I'll admit to be guilty of yelling in public, a trait I earned from my mother, one I am not proud of and am currently working on getting rid of. I do however replicate the not arguing in public. I just recently got divorced and it shocked a lot of people, because they did not know we had so many issues in our marrige; they didn't know because I didn't tell them. I kept my issues behind closed doors and when enough because enough I had to leave. Being discreet is so passe, but my Daddy raised me to be classy so in the passe I shall stay. My younger sister is the complete opposite of me, sometimes she'll ask me a question that I can't answer because the answer is taboo, and that is a no-no in my book, but she doesn't even realize that I am trying to be reserved.
I wish we had more wise elders, teaching the younger, because we are walking around, blind, deaf and dumb. No one is taught to respect their spouse or their mate. No one is taught to train up their child in the way that they should go. No one is taught to be a friend, thick or thin. We are heading down a disatrous road, if those who have the road map don't share it. I am 26, and understand that my age is a drop in the bucket of life, I know somethings but there is so much more that I don't know and need to learn, but how can I learn if I am not taught? Thank you Mrs. BB, I salute you and your wisdom.
I've actually sent people to blogs and said - ask the question, see what answers you get. It's a great way to take a temperature on something without souring everyone around you who has listened to you bitch about over and over again.
I so feel you. I've been through my share of storms and I must say, the sunshines brighter and feels warmer when you make it to the other side of through. I'm engaged now and I wouldn't know that he is a King if I hadn't been with such a frog.
Maybe @BBWaite and @CarolynEdgar can start a Reform School for 'less refined" women trying to come up? And publish the graduate list when you're done?
Good Post. I think people have taken the idea of "expressing yourself" too far. There is a time & place for everything but people don't know the time and definetly not the place. For example, if I am having problems in my relationship, then I am going to have a discussion with the dude. Not my co-workers, best friends, aunties, sisters and them. It's none of their business. period.
There are boundaries in life whether people want to believe it or not. I have always been private; I always hear "Your so quiet" or " I didn't know you were in the room". What? Am I suppose announce my arrival to everyone???? Or start a conversation everytime I see someone. That's not the flavor of my cheesecake. No, I am not anti-social and if you think I am so be it. {shrugs shoulder} :)
Very hard to find and non-existent are not the same. Sadly, wisdom and discretion aren't being taught all the time in all households, so be patience. She is there somewhere.
Tye Tribett said it best, "Just because its real don't make it right".
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mrs. Waite, and I'm going to add an "AMEN" in as well.
If I had a quarter for every time I've heard someone in the past year alone either on the bus, subway, in the queue at the grocery store, sitting next to someone in a cafe or a restaurant, even in the doctor's office waiting room ~ sharing all of their business in graphic detail. I would have enough money to buy me a yacht and possibly a private jet. The lack of shame and embarrassment is what I find so shocking. And in case anyone thinks, I'm taking about Americans, I'm not. I live in Sydney, Australia and I have heard women of all ages here sharing stories, I doubt a porn star would do on film.
I have been saying since the first season of "Survivor" that when historians look back, they will point to the advent of "reality TV" as to when polite society started to fall apart.
Raise 'em up- let me high five you, Miz Raven. I keep telling people, okay - we're in Cancun - see all the chicks with boobs and butts hanging out of three triangles of string??? Okay now look BEHIND her and see the cute girl with her iPod on, her sunglasses on, with a book and a bottle of water wearing a suit that covers her unmentionables? Holla at her. No you won't get to make your own version of Girls Gone Wild that night but you may find something better.
"Polite society" - THAT was the phrase I was trying to remember. I was brought up with "We don't do that in polite society or mixed company" - haven't heard that in a while.
Wow, I disagree 110%. In my family there is a distinct difference between my grandmother, mother, aunts and the generation after my brothers, cousins and I. My grandmother bore 9 children and it’s amazing to me that they can’t lean on each other during their most difficult times. Since they don’t rely on each other, they definitely don’t have close friends to comfort them either. They live by the rules of reservation and quite frankly it’s a hindrance and unhealthy. If I had a penny for the number of times, I was told “Don’t repeat anything that goes on in this house or X, Y, Z shouldn’t be discussed.” – I’d be a gazilionare.
If there have been marital issues that even border abuse, emotional distress, a child taken the wrong path, etc – no says anything, intervenes or stepped in because “ it isn’t anyone’s business “. I’m sorry – What are family and close friends for? If not to share, console, offer solutions and even help each other in times of need. The hypothetical shoulder goes around in a circle and brings people closer together. My mother and aunts had no one to help them through serious issues; they all married extremely young, shared the similar financial burden and marriage strife, and reared young children while coming into adulthood themselves. I would have needed a shoulder. The younger generation of cousins and siblings are different. We always talk about issues, seek advice, a hug, comforting words, and as a result are a lot closer than our aunts and uncles. I think we have more in comparison because of the internal network; financially, better friendships, and overall happiness or satisfaction with our lives. The older kids within the new generation who subscribe to this thought process are often left out.
I know that this is an extreme example but a common thing that happens in an abusive relationship is to cut the victim off from family and friends. I’m sorry but there’s a reason for this sort of isolation – to keep victim trapped. The reason AA / NA meetings, support groups ( infertile couples, disabled children, cancer), etc are set up so that extreme sharing occurs is because it’s a good release that heals and comforts one in knowing – I’m not the only one going through this trial.
I have to add if I were in that church basement in a group title “Recognizing the Real in your Relationships” I would have been pissed. Why are you here involved in my sauce if you want to judge and look incredulously at your partner/ friends in shock? If you can figure things out privately, not for nothing, do it at home….
hi five right back atcha!
I think you might be confusing talking about a few issues and oversharing with strangers? I didn't think BB was advocating not talking to friends and families but putting all your business in the streetz for everyone to know and dissect
I agree 110% I don't think every thing is up for discussion in the public arena.
Love the post Miz BB. As far as the where are women like this comments? At the risk of sounding crude, try looking with the head up top and not the one below.
Thanks to Chele for making my ramblings make sense and hope everybody (even those that may not have agreed) got something out of it. As for where all the "good men/ good women" are, I'll leave that for Chele to tackle. I found mine in college, locked him down, haven't looked back. ;-)
I get where you're coming from but there is a difference between seeking help and counsel from your friends/family and gossiping about all aspects of your relationship and "letting it all hang out" so to speak. I have a tight knit group of friends, there are five of us, we know quite a bit of each others business, but the difference is in the details, the details are theirs to keep. I don't need to know that xyz's husband is flipping it up sideways in the bedroom, keep that to yourself. If something is going wrong in a relationship we all "know" about it and we are there to help anyway we can, if we are allowed to be. Does that mean we sit by and let things we suspect happen? No, absolutely not.
This is about subtlety and discretion and about there being more ways to get your point across or talk about something without "putting everything out on front street."
Woo - cosign. For the record ladies, some of us do NOT want to know how you and the SO get down in the bedroom, back seat, beach blanket - wherever. But if he's hurting you in some way, disrespecting you - let us know so we can help you out.
I think down in the comments Chele mentioned something about filters. Meaning not everything for every audience. I miss that.
This is all about you ladies because guys don't have this issues. We don't gossip and sit in bars telling the business.
Whoa son. Let me respectfully pull your coat before the ladies descend on you like a pack of swarming bees. Men are some of the worst gossips out there! And what bars are you in? I defy you to find a single happy hour, golf course, or locker room this weekend where some dude isn't saying too much.
Just saying now, let's stay on the reality path here. Ownership is next step to self-awareness.
Aw, you can lock me down anytime... is that oversharing?
We feel you Skyy
Patience = Virtue.
Good save there at the end to keep from getting kicked out of BougieLand. I can't find quality chicks anywhere. Seems like the same three skanks iz everywhere.
Oh and this> "I don't argue with my husband in public, I wait to smack my kids upside the head until we get home, and I only raise my voice in public if someone's in mortal danger." That's classy grown folk activity.
Great post and discussion. @OneChele has the best commenters, hands down.
I agree with RavensLady that in situations of crisis, some sharing may be necessary. But good Lawd, talking loud on your cell phone about your cancer diagnosis (or worse, your friend's cancer diagnosis), broadcasting publicly how your man ain't ish in bed, having loud screaming arguments in the street -- not cool at all.
As I'm reading this, I'm sitting behind some fellas on the L. One is in the middle of describing his hook up from last night. Apparently her mouth is a "Dyson, she betta than a Hoover" -this whole area of the train just winced. TMI, TMI, TMI!
Agreed. Something major will have to happen to turn back the tide of tabloid culture. And I can't imagine what that would be.
Maybe you and your friends don't, but my husband and his friends are biggers gossips than I am. I sure wish things were the way they used to be, we don't need to hear everything about everybody all the time.....
Preach!
Exactly........
My grandmother and mother taught me that a little grace and civility go a long way. I'm 25, but I'm a lot like Miz BB minus the Bible-thumpery! (No insult meant.)
My contemporaries think I have a "secret" that keeps men interested. The only thing I can think of is that when it comes to talk, I prefer quality over quantity.
I agree with the post, the ones who are reserved gets labeled snooty, or shy. I'm so over it. It doesn't bother me as much anymore. I just hope the young ladies out there with tack don't follow the loud & proud ones just to fit in.
Just wanted to cosign your comment, Winter. I can't count the number of times that I've gone to a sister/brother or friend for help with a problem that, if kept to myself, would only have grown and festered into something much worse. I know only one thing with absolute certainty and that is that I don't know everything about anything. If someone is cheating on me, of course I want to know how my older sister may have dealt with the same situation..especially if I've never been cheated on before!
One of the main reasons to surround ourselves in family and friends is to learn from them. Learn from their mistakes and experiences so we don't have to go through the same heartache.
Now some things are meant to be kept "private". I, for one, do not want to know who does what/where/how in the bedroom, but Miz BB's comments don't seem to be directed (solely) at the people who want to make the whole world their bedroom. If I went someplace that I believed to be safe and bared my soul to people I thought could empathize and help me through my troubles...I'd be plenty pained/disappointed/pick an adjective to see a group of people silently judging me in a corner.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure she didn't say anything about silently judging but keeping their thoughts to themselves. To each his own but make sure you understand the spirit of a comment before wholesale attacking it
"We were the only three who sat near the back with our lips tightly zipped and hadn't shared inappropriate details about our sex lives or overshared issues in our current relationships. At one point, the seminar was so outlandish that we shared a "this can't be real" look amongst ourselves...."
This is a direct quotation from the original post OnlyMe. Instead of posting this quote in it's entirety, however, I summed it up as "silently judging"-- would you disagree with my reading comprehension? If so, can you explain what you yourself comprehend from this quote?
As for wholesale attacking, I think my last paragraph made it clear that I do agree with Miz BB's post in some instances. There's nothing "wholesale" about that.
Okay, comments done. Any more questions or comments, feel free to email me @ onechele@gmail.com or Miz BB @ bbwaite@gmail.com.
found your site on del.icio.us today and really liked it.. i bookmarked it and will be back to check it out some more later
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