Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Question for the fellas: Why can’t men say what they mean and mean what they say?

Continuing our questions for the fellas week, I received quite a few questions about men's communication style (or lack thereof). I can boil those questions down into one: Why won't men say what they really mean? A snippet of a song that breaks it down: Jill Scott's Talk To Me.

Two BougieTales about communication:

He said it but I didn't get it - Out of college, I had a huge crush on a gentleman that I'll call Vince. Ladies, Vince was Dat Dude. He was older than me by a number years. DJ in a club by night, sold cars by day. (read: charismatic) 6'2", chocolate, could wear leather pants like they were meant to be worn. Bald before everybody else was. And sexy. Just oozed the sizzle. My roommate was dating his best friend so I saw him all the time. I wanted a double scoop of Vince and you could keep the whipped cream. To me, it seemed as though Vince dated EVERY woman in Austin, Texas BUT me. One late night I finally asked him why.

He said, "Michele I like you. Okay?" I shrugged, clueless as to what that meant. He repeated, "No, I LIKE you. Are you hearing me? Like you in a way that you could be Mrs. Vince. But I'm no good for you and we both know that. Now we could have a little fun together when you get older but not now when you'll take it the wrong way and get hurt. I'm doing this for you." I didn't know what the heck he meant. I was extremely hurt and ticked off at the time. For years, I didn't even understand what he meant. But you know what? Time has proven him correct. He is not a one-woman man and has a bit of a Peter Pan complex. Had I forced the issue, no telling how poorly that would have turned out. He's on wife #3. She's 23 (He's in his late 40s!) and he just bought her new boobs for her birthday. He and I remain good (platonic) friends. This was a case where he said what he meant and I just didn't know enough to appreciate it at the time.

He said one thing but meant another - About eighteen months ago I met a gentleman, we'll call him Ken. Ken and I met and clicked. We had a commonality of background and values. We liked similar and complimentary things. Chemistry was snap, crackle, pop. Conversation was banter, banter, and more banter. First date good, second date better. We had lined up the third date when out of the blue he called and said it was not a good time for him to get into anything serious. In fact, he had some things he needed to work out with God. And until he straightened himself out, he was going to take a pass on me.

Well ouch. But what can you say but "Okay and good luck with that." Yet of course it rattled around my mind a little and I wondered what the real story was. Was there someone else? Was he not attracted? Did I miss a sign? Finally I chalked it up to "one of those things that men do" and moved on. But it rankled.

Lo and behold I got an email three days ago from Ken. I had really been on his mind and would I mind calling him? I didn't answer. Another email: here's my number in case you lost it. Please call. I replied back that I was curious… what was different now? How had his "Come to Jesus" reflective time worked out? His answer – he might have over-exaggerated what his situation was. It was really more of a case of him trying to juggle too many things and not having time for me. But now he's ready. Laser beam side-eye. Why not just say, "I'm seeing other people." Why even start anything up at all? Because now you look shady and I've translated your situation to mean that you were juggling multiple women and you couldn't figure out how to add me to the rotation. Now that it's two years later and none of that worked out for you, you're circling back around… That's not flattering. At. All. I haven't called Ken and don't really plan on it. I prefer a man that just shoots straight the first time out.

Out of the 26 questions ladies submitted on this topic, I've consolidated into five for the fellas:

  1. When a man is no longer interested in a woman, why can't he be responsible enough to let that woman know he is no longer feeling her rather than pulling "disappearing acts" (i.e. stop the calling, texting, emailing) and hoping she figures it out on her own?
  2. What does a man mean when he says "He's not ready for a relationship right now" or "I'm not ready to be serious"?
  3. Why do men lie about stupid stuff? Why is everything a fact-finding expedition? Why do I have to dig it out of them like I'm mining for gold?
  4. Why won't a man just tell you what their thoughts are feelings are about your relationship?
  5. Why even start a sentence with "Baby, just let me explain…"

And ladies a question for you… Would you rather have a man just be brutally honest with you (about rejection, infidelity, etc) or have him let you down easy?

The floor is yours…

UPDATED: Response from Mr. Inkognegro on his blog

80 comments:

OneChele said...

Oh, brutal honesty. I like that!

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

OneChele said...

I love the grown man answers. Really do.

msames said...

TELL ME UP FRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are both adults (or should be) and I would prefer the truth, hurt feelings or not. Because of all the lies from Black men I don't give them a second look these days. A waste of my time! I'd rather be alone.

karen1657 said...

Regarding question #1, when the disappearing acts start, get busy, don't sit at home waiting on him to call, and don't be soooo available. When a man pulls away, it is because he isn't interested. Our job is not to figure out why, our job it to not "waste the pretty" Give him his space. Don't call "to see what's up." Let him miss you. He may or he may not. But think to yourself: NEXT.
The answer to question #2 is that when a man say's he's not ready, I'm still hurt from my last relationship, I'm scared, you're too good for me...translation..."He's just not that into you." Don't waste time trying to convince him that you are worthy or that you will be the one who heals him of his past hurt, etc. Just keep it moving.

Orange of the good DisKrit said...

Just be honest and upfront initially about intentions , like Vince was, that way folk know what the deal is out the gate. Be clear about intentions etc.

and then WOMEN we have to listen and accept whats being said even if we don't like it....believe folk when they show/tell you who they are and act accordingly........ we'd spare ourselves a world of heartache, disappointment, wasted time etc..smh I had to learn this the hard way!!!

iLoveit said...

I am a woman and would like to answer these questions based on experience, and talking to other men...feel free to counter...
1.
When a man is no longer interested in a woman, why can't he be responsible enough to let that woman know he is no longer feeling her rather than pulling "disappearing acts" (i.e. stop the calling, texting, emailing) and hoping she figures it out on her own?
It is a jerkish thing to tell a woman that is really feeling you that you are not interested (it is the mature thing to do but you are still looked at as a jerk). Some of us don't listen when we are told things straight out. We hear what we want to hear, so some men just think...why bother telling her.
2.
What does a man mean when he says "He's not ready for a relationship right now" or "I'm not ready to be serious"? It means I do not want a relationship with you (not necessarily a bad thing...see OneChele's example in the post)...but we love to feel like we can change their minds (never works). When he says that...by God he means it, I don't understand why it is so hard for us to get this through our heads.
3.
Why do mean lie about stupid stuff? Why is everything a fact-finding expedition? Why do I have to dig it out of them like I'm mining for gold? They will let you know when they are good and ready or "feel like they can let you in". You can't force him to open up about things. And the lying about stupid stuff (who knows)
4.
Why won't a man just tell you what their thoughts are feelings are about your relationship? They will tell you when they are good and ready, or he might have told you but of course you heard something that does not suit your vision for the relationship so you ignore it.
5.
Why even start a sentence with "Baby, just let me explain…" It helps bring your guard down (lol, I have no idea why some do that)

ASmith said...

::ahem::

Whenever I tell the story of my most recent issue with #communicationfail, I always say very early in the story "I don't do euphemisms. Say what you mean so we don't have any misunderstandings later."

A guy I've known a very long time recently told me in about 300 different ways he liked me. This included a marriage proposal (at the time I excused him because we were all drunk), trip invites, constant texting and he even said at one point, "It was love at first sight -- I can't help how I feel." When I got tired of the games (read: got tired of pretending like this was all in fun) and asked him to be real he told me he'd been joking.

::record scratch::

Aight pimpin. I got you.

He later apologized and told me he felt like an ass. I'm not clear on what, exactly, he felt like an ass for -- but that's his issue.

What I think is people do that to hide. Not ever being completely clear on what they feel typically leaves wiggle room. If you never outright say you have feelings for a person or always do it in a joking way, you get to come back on the end of it and get out of owning what you said. #trickery

I've had this convo a lot with my guy friends and they always tell me "we just don't want to hurt her feelings and have to deal with all that..." and I tell 'em "that's how ya'll end up with crazy-ass baby mamas. Got the girl thinking if she just does a few things you'll be interested..." I'd rather EVERYONE shoot straight with what they want and what they think. This isn't middle school. Use your words.

On the flip side, men can also be really harsh. They try to be nice and then when you don't get it, they go in for the kill. Finesse is a skill some could stand to learn with regards to this -- but hey -- I'd still rather you be painfully real than not real at all.

brendakay50 said...

Oh yes, please be honest. I'm at that age and period in my life where I prefer brutally honest over sweet sounding lies. Don't worry about letting me down softly, I have strong prayer in my life, I will be just fine.

SingLikeSassy said...

"What does a man mean when he says "He's not ready for a relationship right now" or "I'm not ready to be serious"? " <--I'm not a man, but this seems self-explanatory to me. Y'all aint getting ready to have a relationship.

SingLikeSassy said...

not "waste the pretty" <--this right chere!

Steve said...

Sometimes we don't KNOW what we mean but we don't want to say that. So it's easier to say nothing at all until we figure it out.

Reads4Pleasure said...

Did the men take a pass on answering the questions this morning? Was yesterday too much for them? hmmm, inquiring minds want to know.

ASmith said...

Generally speaking...

Honestly, I'll take "nothing"...

But seems like some men don't want to stop at "nothing" they want to give "something" so they give bullsh*t.

And yes, I know some women will nag you until you say something. Those women are difficult, I get it, but bullsh*t is never the right something to give.

OneChele said...

LOL - I don't know girl, I don't know!

Man's World said...

I would say (respectfully) that women are FAR more guilty of muddied communication skills then men. We stop talking because we've said all we had to say.

J B said...

Either they're all burned out on yesterday's topic, or they're guilty of today's topic and don't want to confess!

OneChele said...

An answer from Inkognegro: http://inkognegro.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/ink-answers-chele-vol-2/

beautifulcurare said...

LMAO...yeah, where the fellas at on this one?

RoyalLee said...

Ladies, I'm coming out of lurk status for this one. Men hate rejection and try not to make you feel that way. It's easier to just fade to black. Stick with us, eventually we get to the point where we can say to your face "It ain't happening, sorry."

If a man tells you he isn't ready? HE ISN'T READY by a long shot.

SOME men lie about stupid stuff to avoid getting into a longer conversation that they just don't want to have. Example: Did you take out the trash? Yep. I didn't but I'll get around to it and now we don't have to talk about it for another 20 minutes.

When men don't tell you their thoughts about a relationship it's because a) They don't know yet or B) They don't know how you feel and don't want to put themselves out there.

Baby let me explain is a classic stall tactic. We're thinking. We're thinking baout what the best thing to say to explain ourselves and keep you around.

careycarey2 said...

I've read all the comments (both days), and since I have a propensity to run my mouth...

When it's all said and done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTM_v1axGpw

I have a few more posted @ my blog (today) http://careycarey-carrymehome.blogspot.com/

Mocha Dude Speaks said...

Communication finesse comes with wisdom and age. While some men get the age part, they never get the wisdom. The best thing a woman can do is be clear and straight with her communication and WHAT SHE EXPECTS in return. A man will step up to the plate when he recognizes that this a non-negotiable for you.

Sarah said...

I've never liked to draw generalizations from my own experiences. I had to be the 'bad' person and end each of the two most important relationships. The men were completely different in personality, temperament, lifestyle, and occupation. But they had in common the inability to let me go even though each in their own way clearly demonstrated that they were not happy with my company. I'm sure the last one thinks that I am a coward because I packed my things in the car, left a note, changed my phone number, and drove away. He has 50 lbs of muscle and 9 inches on me and is at least a couple parts crazy. I'm not stupid and at least I DID something. I left the apartment spotlessly clean, his clothes clean and ironed, and the refrigerator full of food. From a woman, this is a gift of love although he probably noticed none of it. For the 20 months since, I've been perplexing about why he was as he was and decided it isn't worth the time to think about it any more. I think the way to tell if you are with the right person is when you have the kind of understanding with them that doesn't require you ask the questions.

ASmith said...

A good friend of mine experienced something like that.

Her "they're definitely going to get married" boyfriend decided, at some point, he wanted to explore his options (they'd been dating since high school) and instead of saying as much, turned into a major a**hole, forcing her to do the dirty break up work. He later admitted (during his "baby take me back, please" pitch) that that was exactly what he wanted. Her to break up with him because he didn't want to break up with her even though he DID want out of the relationship.

O_o.

JaymeC said...

Whether they like to hear it or not, men take their cues from us. If we only hear what we want to instead of REALLY paying attention and demanding answers we are contributing to the problem. Personally, it took me a while to figure out which communication style my husbad responds to best. For him, it's first thing in the morning as he's getting ready for the day. I have to use descriptive clear big picture type dialogue. Everything I tell him then gets locked in.

Just lessons learned: Men usually shut down when we strat screaming. Men usually have told you how they feel, you just have to know how to decihper what the do from they say. A man who lives by making excuses is not really a man. Start with these and don't expect men to give you everything you need.

FreeBlackMan said...

I'm going to assume that this is just a forum for the ladies to bitch and moan because they already know the answer to all these questions.

careycarey2 said...

"A man who lives by making excuses is not really a man. Start with these and don't expect men to give you everything you need"


OUCH! Ms. JaymeC, would you like to re-define that statement? I mean, although you slide in "lives by" , you words seemed to throw a blanket over "excuses". Is a justitfied reason the same as an excuse, in your opinion. Some things are simply facts. Ultimately, if a woman is resistents to the truth, she may in fact, see them as a lame excuses. What's your thoughts?

More importantly, what's you definition of a man? You gave us your small example of "what a man is not". So, out of fairness, hit us with "A Real Man". But before you do that, I think it's important that you also tell us how we differ from women. You know, something like, women don't do "this". Are you feeling me? I think this is important, because from what I've been reading, I have to agree with the above comments of The FreeBlackMan.

But, come on, I'm listening!

careycarey2 said...

Look out Now! Yes sir, drop it like it's real my brotha.

You don't call yourself "TheFreeBlackMan" for nothing. You ain't scared.

careycarey2 said...

Nuff said. Close the door. The truth hurts, and sometimes leave little room for debate.

Well, in this case (your comment), I didn't hear a differing opinion. I guess we can't turn right into wrong.

Yep, the cream comes to the top.

careycarey2 said...

Slow your roll, some of us may be sitting back to see what kind of party this is.

careycarey2 said...

We just wanted to know if this was a slow dance or a fast dance. Or, if it was a trap.

Grace said...

So some of the fellas are just going to prop each other up and not really answer. Helpful. I see where you are trying to make this into a dialogue where people can learn but you had to know that would spark the less secure to just bark and not inform. As you say. Le Sigh.

OneChele said...

Okay, this is NOT a battle of the sexes. I don't play like that. THIS is a forum in which people are welcome to share their informed and intelligent opinions. Keep it bougie, people.

rozb said...

I prefer honesty in communication. That way we can both act on the real information, not "fake the funk". If a man lies about his marital or relationship status, or what he is looking for in a woman, because he feels he has a better chance chance of getting it in, what does he think is going to happen once that lie catches him?

I had a man tell me straight up that he was into "swinging" (IDK - swinging while you are single just means you are humping everything) and was not going to be faithful to one woman. BTW - he only dates women who are trysexual (try anything at least once). With that all said, I was able to gracefully ditch his number and be a polite Sister and say "Nice meeting you - buh-bye." Had he not been honest, and caught me up in some kind of funky situation, things could have gotten real ugly, and a truly bougie woman would rather not get into ugly at all. Might mess up my Calvin Klein shoes and my afro...

OneChele said...

I would even go one step further and say that once you make something a "non-negotiable" and the fellas still doesn't step up to the plate... you know what to do next.

Eye Candy said...

Let's not make it a "women do" vs "men do" - the questions were what does it mean when MEN. As Chele said, they'll be one of these "Ask a Lady" down the lane. And I would bet that we will actually own up to our own faults instead of assessing blame.

Reads4Pleasure said...

Actually, that's not what this is. This must be your first time visiting. Otherwise you'd know that we're all (well most of us) interested in hearing what the other side says. If the other side says nothing, then we're left to draw conclusions. In addition, this is a special "Ask men what you always wanted to know" week. Trust, @onechele will get to the "ask ladies" week later and the men will question and respond accordingly.

rozb said...

Wow, FreeBlackMan, really? Just like that? So...are you gonna answer the questions, though?

OneChele said...

I don't do traps, sir. Might wanna pocket the paranoia. It's just a discussion. ;-)

GrownAzzMan said...

I applaud the brotha for kicking the real. From what I read on here that is what women want.

GrownAzzMan said...

I can only speak for myself since I missed the last man's convention and didn't get the talking points. I live by the mantra that I say what I mean and mean what I say. What I have found is that sometimes women hear what you say and filther it through the prism of what they want the outcome to be. Then they immeadiately go into 'Ican change/fix him' mode. When this fails, they become angry, bither, hurt or you name it and blame the man for doing exactly what he said he was going to do.

Orange of the good Diskrit said...

There is something to be said about honesty chile even if that person's truth doesn't agree with you, LOL you have to respect the honesty because it facilitates choice, in the truest manner.

Once again believe folk when they tell/show you who they are, in words and actions!

GrownAzzMan said...

Here is my shot at the 5 questions BNB posed:

1) Can't help with that one. I don't do it and can't understand that ish either.
2) He means you are fun to hang out with and I want to hit it but don't go putting any dates on the calendar. If you are not down ladies, run!
3) People lie to avoid pain or gain a benefit. Depending on the lie there is your answer. We will lie with the truth will do! Once you grow up that stuff stops.
4)Minefield! LOL We will talk about anything except our thoughts and feelings about our relationship. We are trained/wired/socialized like that. Emotions are best kept in check. Show them at your peril. Ladies you will best know how we feel by what we do.
5) It's a stall. Would your prefer "See what had happened was'?

JaymeC said...

I never say (or type) a word that I won't stand by so no re-definition needed. By definition, a justified reason is not the same as an excuse which I suspect you already know. Similarly, I'm positive we could debate at length as to what makes a "good man" or a "good woman" but I won't hijack Chele's blog for the purposes of debate. You can feel free to email me at JaymeC09@yahoo.com if you are actually interested in my opinions as opposed to stirring things up in the blogosphere.

As for FreeBlackMan's opinion. That's kind of a cop-out, no? Clearly women don't feel like they have all the answers and are willing to ask the questions and LISTEN to what you have to share. That's why Chele put herself and her blog out there. We have much better places to "bitch and moan" than BougieLand. Oh, no shade to BnB, Chele.

Mr.TramueL said...

Mr.TramueL all up on Black & Bougie! I've been a reader, never commented but let me take a stab at this one. It resonated with me 'cause I just told some(1)ne of the female persuasion that I'm honest about my intentions up front. Reading the top five for the fellas ... I've gotta call bullshyt on myself.

1. I would rather you be the one to call it quits freeing me from any guilt. Pulling the "disappearing act" causes doubt. Doubt leads to resentment, resentment leads to anger, anger leads to frustration ... you see where I'm going.
2. For me it means not with you, you're not what I'm looking for, not right now and maybe never. Rather than be honest and have you tell me that you can be all that I want you to be (Which is a lie) I opt for the subtle approach. "It's me not you"
3. If it's stupid do you really need to know? Does it matter that I stopped by Subway to grab a sub before going home? I respect that I'm in a relationship & letting you know where I'm going, what I'm doing & who I'm doing it with is important ... but every detail?
4.Null. I'm a very effective communicator.
5.Null. See number 4

You want me to be honest? http://su.pr/31Imos

Troy said...

I just went through something similar. To my fault, I knew girlie was crazy but her hotness overrode the crazy and I knew she wasn't going to be Mrs. Troy so I went in. Now, to my credit I did say in advance, this is just about the sex. She said cool. Now again my bad because even though she said it was cool I knew she wanted more. You know where the story is going, right? A few weeks in, I want out because the good-good is not worth the crazy-crazy. She goes off, why wasn't I for real? Well I was but she didn't want to hear it. So MY lesson learned. When a woman isn't hearing you and you know it - walk away or MAKE them hear you. Drama pops off when people under-communicate. Sorry Chele, did that answer anything?

OneChele said...

Thank you!!!!

OneChele said...

And Thank You!!!!

OneChele said...

And we will take anecdotal knowledge everytime - THANK you!

Reads4Pleasure said...

Besos!

GrownAzzMan said...

Troy,

Your comments take me back...LOL Oh the thing I have done/situations I have gotten into in the name of chasing that Crazy P! That is why the call it experience.

careycarey2 said...

Sure, I get the point of the discussion.... I really do, but Chele, you'll have to agree (or not), but from a man's perspective, the initial post (yesterdays), had a call and a tone, that lead the way for some of the exact replies/comments that's been posted. It did not set the ground work for open and honest discourse (imo).

Granted, you motives and rewards are yours, however, although you coiled from my word "trap", I simply meant this theme - this flow, may not have been a conversation that welcomed men. The very first comments suggested it was anything other that a slippery slope for most men.

Flip it, smack it, rub it around, the truth remains. Call it a trap or a yap, I am not paraniod. I'm just calling it as "I" see ;-)

tmcydame said...

1. He has to care. Has to be at a point where he should care before he owes anyone anything about going ghost. I don't quite know what this marker is for other people or even myself. It depends on the given situation. But I don't think it's a huge deal to stop answering calls, texting or e-mailing. The more important thing is to realize that that person doesn't care -- for whatever reason -- and keep it moving. And if he/she comes back around, don't be there.

2. Just what he says or better yet, "I'm not ready to be in a relationship...with you."

3. This, idk about.

4. I think he will, when he cares enough to do so and let his guard down. To me it's just like that game of saying "I love you." There's a vulnerability in saying it first. There's a vulnerability in saying it period. Same goes just for saying how you really feel. Some guys tend to be a little more prudent when it comes to letting go of such words. But don't get to wrapped up in what he says. Trust what he does.

5. Does not compute. I never have.

Mr. Skyywalker said...

Let me get in on that. I'll take a dollar for everytime I got sidetracked/derailed/rendered ignant because of some p! that was so good and so bad all at the same time.
Ladies if you want to know why we stupid... this is why. The heterosexual male is wired to act stupid when blood leaves one area and heads (no pun) to another. We stupid cuz you makes so... in the best way possible. Maybe we are struck speechless in your presence...

OneChele said...

In case ya'll did not know. I love Dame. His was the very first blog I ever commented on. Why? Cuz he has some sense about himself.

Mr. Analytical said...

1. When a man is no longer interested in a woman, why can't he be responsible enough to let that woman know he is no longer feeling her...?
a. I think before the disappearing acts commence we try to give subtle hints first. Remarks here and there. Conversations about wanting to be single. Sometimes saying, “I sho wish I could go out with [another woman walking down the street]!” You know the usual to let the woman know where the last stop on the train is. Sometimes we come right out with it but OFTEN that is met with a LOT of opposition. I will add this; some of the blame has to be shouldered by (other) women. Before you stone me or accuse me of blaming “the victim” hear me out. If you knew what being forthright has lead to for some men, you would understand why we think it’s better to just get ghost rather than be haunted.
2. What does a man mean when he says "He's not ready for a relationship right now" or "I'm not ready to be serious"?
a. oh that’s easy. I just want sex. The music hasn’t stopped for me yet (you’ll have to ask me about that reference) so please understand this is what it is so I don’t have to revert to No.1 above.
3. Why do men lie about stupid stuff? Why is everything a fact-finding expedition? Why do I have to dig it out of them like I'm mining for gold?
a. I admit sometimes it irks the hell out of me when I feel like I’m in an inquisition. I don’t like giving a play by play of everything I’m doing, done, and plan to do. Let some things just be. A lot of times women’s response to that is, “well I’m upfront with you about everything.” I didn’t ask you to be, that should be clue number one. Number two, just because you are (without my asking), that should not create this expectancy that I’ll be equally candid about everything. That’s like me expecting (read assuming) that you share my desire to have sex simply because you let me take you out to dinner. Also, men are men and sometimes we want to act like men. What I mean by that is, throughout the day we may look at women, flirt with women, do things that fellas do and enjoy without acting on them. We can’t be forthcoming about that or an argument would ensue.
4. Why won't a man just tell you what their thoughts are feelings are about your relationship?
a. Jack Nicholson, a Few Good Men.
5. Why even start a sentence with "Baby, just let me explain…"
a. I NEVER start a sentence like that.

Please pardon my verbosity…

LeonX said...

Being a man of a certain age I've discovered a lot about how we communicate with one another goes beyond how we do it on the surface. Our communication is deeply rooted in how we communicate with our family, our friends, people in general, and eventually the ones we romantically link ourselves with. I say this based on being the perpetrator and the victim of bad communication. My best answer to the questions you have posed is that both parties need to analyze and learn from the good and bad in how they communicate with those they care about.

keishabrown said...

I think it's not about cold/blunt honesty as it is just COMMUNICATING your message. I think sometimes dudes drop us like it's hot (#nopharell) because it's EASIER than hurting our feelings/dealing with screaming/crying/EMOTIONS.
How you say something is just as important as what you say. But if there is something that needs to be said: just say it (#noneyo). It will likely cause the least amount of heartache/bitterness down the road.

Some of the questions directed at the men, come right back to the women. If you aren't honest with yourself (no..i'm not looking for anything but you calling me at midnight to f*ck either), then you can't have any expectations for the dude to. We have to realize sometimes that we are socialized differently, raised differently and therefore communicate differently. If you are grown enough to get into a relationship with someone (sexual, romantic or otherwise), you must take the time to figure out HOW that person communicates. If you have to dig for information, it's either because he's just not ready to open up, he's not the talkative type, or most likely, he's thinking about the reaction he got from you or the last woman he dealt with. It's not right, but we've all got baggage. Some is carry-on, others requires an extra fee and a porter to assist you.
Sorry if this is all over the place! Hope I made some sense! lol.

rwifey said...

dont get me started....

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I actually prefer brutal honesty. I rather for my feelings to be hurt and know the truth, than live a lie. I hate it when guys lie about why they are breaking up with you. I take the criticism seriously. Maybe I thought I was being sweet but it was actually seen as annoying. If someone let's me know that then I may not try it with the next. And when you think about it when men start saying what is on their minds they usually make total jackasses of themselves. I am always reminded of the movie "As Good As It Gets", he said what was on his mind, which was wonderful and beautiful and then continued only to look like what...a jackass.

Tiffany
http://liferequiresmorechocolate.blogspot.com

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I don't think that you need to be redundant. Good Friends always means platonic.

lynellrobertson said...

I've had it with the whole thing. After nearly nine years of pretty intensive alone time, no sex and then one mistake, long since corrected, I was invited to meet a man at a wedding a client of mine invited me and wanted me to meet her Dad. I didn't want to go and yet I felt I should go. Met the man, danced with him, clicked, he called me the next day and the next and the next, he cooked dinner for me, we had absolutely everything in common, we were alone quite a bit and kissed and he never pushed sex on me, asked me about my self, called sometime two times a day and went out into a windstorm to call me one night, called me honey , called me darlin' and gave me a special gift for woodworking, took out the trash, i didn't ask him to, went with me on a dog walk, came to work and parked near me and wanted to come home with just to see what my evenings were like when I was working, let me come over to eat shrimps with him even when he was exhausted from twelve hour shifts, held me when I was tired, thought I look cute when I was picking up dog poop, came in to work to see me, knew what foods I liked, wanted to find a big house for us to move into together, I said I wanted to wait and talk about it ( wasn't I smart?) loved my dog, took me out to dinner, held my hand, caressed my neck, teased me, played with me, watched baseball with me and came over for a birthday dinner. We talked softly and gently together, I told him sweetly that if I ever saw him at work, I would be even more than 110 percent in love with him. Do you know what? He disappeared. Not a call, not a word. I have a sweater of his with a hole in it. I hold it to my face and feel like the world's biggest idiot. What happened? Can someone tell me? We didn't even have sex. We dated for five weeks. I am so sick and tired of this. I left a message for him, no response. My God, what in the world is wrong with people? I can't call anymore. I can't do this anymore. Everything was perfect, he loved riding in my little sports car, he is not tall and I always said, I need to find someone who will fit in my car, he did we liked the same clothing line, we are both antique collectors, his daughter said even before I met him, that I would be absoutely perfect for her Dad, that we were so alike in so many ways, and when we met at the wedding, she had created a little table for us to sit at together.... I feel like I am going absoutely insane. I am having trouble focusing at work, jabber and cry, and burst into tears now and then. Can someone help me? I can't believe this happened. My Mom says he is just "busy" and "needs to think" but all these websites tell me he has ran for the hills and there is no solution for this. I can't feel him and I can't go and find him, I am not doing "Fatal Attraction" here, I am a very composed and together lady. But I don't want to go out anymore. I am absolutely so sick and tired of these things happening. Nothing ever works out. I put myself out there, and this is what happens. I didn't even want to go, and everyone encouraged me to go, told me it was "gonna happen" and everything was wonderful, and everyone was commenting on how happy I looked. I am sick to my stomach, had a terrible headache today and feel like throwing up. I didn't do anything wrong, he didn't even touch me, we talked about everything and respected each other, I only called him when he called me and we talked about everything and the things we wanted to do. The silence of the phone, is as familiar as the calls we exchanged, it is as complete an ending as the beginning. I never want to go out again. Ever. I am turning fifty next month and I do not want to put myself through this horrible kind of sadness ever again.

careycarey2 said...

Hello Ms Lynell, my nmae is Darnell.

Are you serious? I mean, this (your) comment popped up by e-mail notification, and I couldn't believe someone was commenting on a month old thread. Now, I am just your average joe commenter, but your "story" read like a Lifetime Movie of the week, so I had to see if you were real. I notice that you don't have a blog?

At first I thought you were going to say the guy was secretly married. but no way, that would have been too easy and too complete. I can't believe some guys get ghost without saying a word. Damn, that's strong, cold and mean. The man might have done you a favor. Really, dating is cool but that man has shown you his hold card.

Damn, if I were your friend, I'd have to ask you some very pointed questions. I mean, you say you didn't cross the sex line (to early) and you didn't call him until he called you. Wow, you played it safe. In other words, you let him lead. I most certainly can understand your decison to throw in the towel, but love is never completely gone.

lynellrobertson said...

Thank you Darnell. It is kind of you to reply. My family counsels that he is busy and thinking and that I need to remain "positive". I am trying to remember if there were any red flags, but there wasn't, just a a lot of reassurance, pretty constantly and many many telephone calls. There are a lot of messages on my machine, most of them his. I have been my own person for a long time, a hard fight at times, but always my own person. When he talked about moving in, I said we could talk more about it, and even explore other options, he was also looking at nineteen thirties engagement rings when we went out antiquing, asking me which one I liked, and he was sincere. It was an old fashioned courtship and I do mean that in the fullest sense of the word. I thought he was respecting me, my Mom said he was and I thought, how sweet, just like our antiques. I thought it was kind of sexy to be that way with each other, hands off the merchandise, you know, and I let it be that way. I told him we could talk about that, too and then I told him I was looking at a house to maybe buy, and we could talk about that, he didn't seem to be scared of that idea, he would put things out and I would explore it, told him I was doing that because he put it out there. He would call whenever he got a chance, grab five minutes at work, he works at a hospital and I thought that was so exciting. and like I said, all that has gone. Absoutely no word for a full week. Getting "Ghost" never heard that before, but it fits. There are things all around that remind me of him, little gifts and fun things we collected on our antique day, suggestions for projects that I do, a pretty little crystal dish he had and gave to me on our first date and he did it without making it seem weird or scary, or stalkery. I never got that feeling and from some men, I have. I have no clue, friends say he will come back but what do I do til then? I have not had anyone in my life, my life has been my own and I have been very careful and listened to my heart and my mind. This is insane. I guess I have to sit here and wait, but it is , what did you say strong, cold and mean? I don't want to be reduced to playing games, I didn't think we were doing that, but apparently we were. Awful. Guess there isn't too much love or respect in that. I am a real person. I am also a writer, but the story you have just heard, is true. Guess it was too good to be true. His daughter was as sweet as could be, and I trusted her instinct about the two of us. I will get over this sometime, but like I said, dating and getting out there, is out. I am scared to death. I took a risk. A big one. I believed. And I hate it, because this is what happened. It's really, really tacky. I don't want to be vulnerable, play games, and become part of some horrible scenario, whining at work and making mistakes and crying when I get home because there are no calls anymore and listening for the phone and thinking it is ringing when it isn't. He really got on my case because my cell phone wasn't working for emergencies, he used to be a paramedic and said it was important, and so I fixed it, told him I put his number in there if I needed rescuing he could come and get me, he said that was very good, and we laughed about it. Everything that took place, we talked about, and not too much, just enough to know we were okay. It is definitely not okay now and I need to go. Thanks for your concern.

OneChele said...

I am sorry you went through that. I don't want to give you meaningful platitudes and say that it will all be better when right now it doesn't feel that way. Connect with me offline @ onechele@gmail.com, I have a few resources for you.

Sarah said...

Do you know his daughter well enough to call her and just check that he hasn't had an accident? It is something to make sure and rule out. Older people living on their own (and I count myself in this) don't always have somebody checking on them every day to make sure they are OK. Nobody would consider it strange if you called his daughter to check.

Sarah said...

p.s. Back again 'cause I forgot to add... The reason you are so upset is because you know that this behavior is completely out of character for the person you have gotten to know. This kind of upset is a call to action. It is your Momma Bear reaction that something could have happened to somebody you love. Go ahead and be a Momma Bear and find out at least that he is OK and then you can deal with the rest of it.

Sarah said...

I'm younger than you and him at 46, but I've known people even younger than myself that have had health emergencies and been on their own. I've never been much of one to follow the rules so if it was me I'd just make sure that he was OK for my own peace of mind. If he works at a hospital, I supposed somebody would have missed him if something had happened. We all have our safety nets and you would know better than I whether you are part of his. For example, if my Mom writes me an email or calls me on the phone, I know to respond immediately or otherwise she worries :-) Best of wishes and good luck.

lynellrobertson said...

Dear Sarah:



He's not that old. Just had a birthday, but he's only sixty one. So I am pretty much convinced in my heart and mind that he " got ghost" ( clever expression, wish I would have thought of it) My hands are tied on this one, and I have to realize what is happening and give myself permission to feel bad and get going. I thought it was going well, and I guess I did not read him right. He has a busy schedule, but even during the course of starting a new job and being on that schedule, he was calling and doing it right. He made time, told he was going to call in twenty minutes and went out into the biggest windstorm we'd had in years, to call for five minutes. It is finito. I have to reaize that. I don't like it, but something just isn't there. I feel his sadness, but not his interest. It's not his schedule. I'm not deluding myself. Thanks for your concern. Best of good things to you. Lynell R.

lynellrobertson said...

Sarah:



I did call on Friday evening, around 8 pm. and said those things. There is no response and to continue at this point, would be "stalkerish" and all those awful things. My good girlfriends told me do this, and even though calling on Friday evening, the 23rd, which is considered a date night, after all, we had several Friday evenings together so I know, was a fatal blow to the relationship, rules and all, but I did. No response. So I am listening to what my heart is telling me, and as I said, I feel his sadness but not his interest. I gave him a little birthday party just about a week ago, and they say that isn't cool to do either. Even though he liked his shirts I got him, and put one on and fell asleep with me and my dog, during the news, no heavy romance, just sweetness and vulnerability. This is why I am so confused. But it does feel like an ending. Thanks for your concern. Can I help you with anything? I am pretty good in helping other people, but not myself sometimes. Lynell

lynellrobertson said...

Dear Onechele:



Thank you for being so kind. The resources sound good. Let me know what they are. Right now I am so clueless about this. It really hurts. Like I say, my family thinks he is just busy and thinking, and I want to believe that with all my heart, but the silence and the distance, tell me otherwise, because it has not been like this. I mean this guy was constant with me, and I was getting used to it. I have worked very hard on my independence, have been single for about 25 years and thought I knew my own heart and was taking it slow and no sex and accepting what this man was doing. He said he wanted to treat me well, said I deserved, said, let me open doors for you, let me get used to being treated well. He's gone. I am sitting here in my bathrobe and the prospect of being up and doing, is very tough. I don't ask, why would he do this to me? He did do it. After all his efforts to the contrary. There were no red flags, just a building of trust. If there was a moment where I would question, he would reassure. Not now. Just silence. And a sweater with a hole in it and little gifts and memories and a big blank space and silence. I am off the stuff for life. I feel like one big running sore. I asked him when we met, what I would learn from him. He looked up from the beautiful dinner he had prepared for me and said, you'lll learn about relationships. Yeah. I guess. I don't want one. Lynell

lynellrobertson said...

Sarah:



thank you for your response, I am working through the bad feelings as we speak, have had some training in this area. The reason why I am upset is because our communication was constant, for the sake of caring for one another, and didn't seem codependent, I have had training for that as well, and was on the look out for warning signs and did not see any. We communicated with each other out of interest, romantic affection and desire to see and hear from one another. That is quite absent now. I am sure he is just fine, he has been in medicine and even worked as a paramedic for a long time. He is just doing what he wants to do, for himself and apparently and sadly, that does not include me. Contacting him anywhere, now, would be tracking him down, chasing and being desperate and crazy. I can be those things on my own by myself and not subject anyone else to it and end up in therapy or worse. It is strange and sad but it is the truth. This is man who would pick the phone at the front desk of the hospital, call me honey and tell me he would call me back in a minute and would do that. He has been single for a long time, and despite his daughter telling me that he hasn't met the right person yet, it was a bit premature to think that I was the one, although his daughter knew her husband immediately when she met him. Very romantic and cool, but alas, not for us. Most likely we jut got caught up in it. I could go on and on, it does help to get it out, but facts are facts. If you have been constant with someone for a few pretty solid weeks and stop calling them, then you have no further interest in pursuing the relationship. I am convincing myself of the harshness of this. But I can't see otherwise. I want to keep my head about this, I have not been. The only way to keep my head is to accept what has happened. I am angry yes, and disillusioned certainly, but can accept it. If he flakes like this now, what if we did get together and he did "disappear" emotionally, if not physically? Why would he mention moving in, etc if he knew he was going to do this? You understand that I am communicating through a website and not him at all, and that is the real story about what is happening, but you are kind to speak with me. Best regards Lynell

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