Let me preface this post by saying I have no beef with interracial dating, relationships, marriage. Get love where you find love, people. I have the entire United Nations and Rainbow Coalition up and through my BougieFam. As stated in previous posts, that which attracts people to each other is a mystery so I'm not about to judge someone for being with whomever their heart truly desires. Except for you fellas – you know who are, living in the hood perfectly content with cocoa Jacquishia on your arm until you get up out the hood with some change jingling and all of a sudden your arm candy is all flavorful, foreign and whatnot. You make me (and Jacquishia) very tired, but everyone else… go ahead and do you.
However, I have noticed there is a definite double standard with the interracial dating. Sure there are some sisters who throw visual and verbal daggers at a brother when he dates outside the race as in this scene from the Spike Lee classic Jungle Fever featuring Queen La in one of her early film roles (only version I could find, forgive the French subtitles):
All jokes aside, can we talk for a minute about the brothers getting all yoked up when they see a sister doing the same thing? Really though, you are giving us attitude when the whole world is telling us that waiting on a black man we'll never get married? I don't buy into it but I don't see sisters getting a ton of positive reinforcement. My own BougieYoungerBro told me JUST LAST WEEK, "The brothers aren't really checking for ya'll right now. It's kinda the day of the Latina or exotic babe." HOLD UP, he followed it with, "But you are cute enough to still pull something." **crickets** Yep, I threw him up out my house, slinging expletives and side-eyes the whole way. BougieMom should have beat his narrow behinds more when he was a child.
Let me share yet another BougieTale (I have 'em for days, folks) to illustrate my point. (names changed to protect the innocent… and the guilty)
The other evening I ventured out for a meal and movie with a gentleman not of African descent. We rolled up into a local jazz/supper club spot that I adore and were enjoying martinis and appetizers when a male acquaintance of mine from back in the day rolled up. More of a friend of a friend that I haven't seen in over five years.
"Michele, is that you?" He asked all loud, pulling me out of my chair and holding me close for an extended hug. I leaned back and gave him a patented OneChele "U don't know me like dat" look.
"Hey, Rick – what've you been up to?"
"You know me, just chillin'. Who's your friend?"
Hard side-eye, "Rick, Julian. Julian, Rick." I watched while they did the Black Man-Latino Man What-Up head bob. I sat back down next to Julian and we both looked up at Rick.
He stood there for an awkward moment before saying, "Have you seen Gene lately?" Foul on the play bringing up the ex.
"No I have not, have you seen Karla?" Karla was his ex-wife who booked out two years ago with all his money, his two kids and (we suspect) the contractor who was hired to lay tile… well, he laid something well. Moving on. I fight evil with evil.
He face got tart, "No I haven't. So this is how you roll now, huh?"
"What are you talking about?"
"I'm so disappointed. I mean of all the sisters, I never thought you-"
"What IS your problem?"
"You just gave up on the brothers, another lost to the other side. Brother can't get a shot?" He was talking very loudly and furthermore, his ex-wife was Filipino. Hello Pot, meet Kettle.
Julian gave me a 'should I handle this fool or will you' look. I raised my hand in an 'I got this' gesture. "Rick, I'm confused as to why a wave across the restaurant would not have sufficed. I'm confused as to why you are talking so loud? And I'm really confused as to how this concerns you? We are not friends."
"So that's how it is huh? Ya'll sitting up here eating smoked salmon and sh!t."
"Basically. We'd get back to it if you would leave."
"You ain't all that." Le Sigh.
"You never were. Hey, stay classy!"
He stormed off. Julian and I looked at each other before he said, "Would he have felt better if I ordered the nachos?"
We broke up laughing and went on with the evening. Unfortunately, Rick's hard glare was not the only one we got that night. So I called around to some of my friends, both male and female to see what kind of reactions they get when they date outside of race. The stories were as mild as whispers and glances and as bold as fist-fights and public cursing. And yes, the most bile was directed at the sisters. This is not a scientific poll by any means but it did reinforce some of the drama I've been a witness to. Is it because I'm in the South? Is it because Michelle and Barack are looking all black and beautiful in the White House and everyone figures if they can do it, everyone can? (FAIL)
It's 2009 people. Grow the F! up. As it happens, Julian and I did not have a ton in common so I probably won't go out with him again. I have a date lined up for this week back in my chocolate milieu but allow me to quote the ever-interesting Bobby Brown, "It's my prerogative. Let me live my life!"
What say you, BougieLand? How much drama is still associated with interracial relationships? Do sisters get more heat from the brothers? When do you think we will all just get along?
83 comments:
I'll be the first to comment on this one... I think you are wrong. From personal experience, bros who date outside the race catch all kinds of hell from you and you sisters, not to mention the hell we already catch from everybody else in the world. I think black women go in 20x harder than black men on this issue. I have had sisters come up to me in public and call me a sell-out and every type of mf. But I date everybody, no exceptions. you wanna dot he same, go head
Well be prepared to have this one align along the sexes. I am currently with a non-Black man and the brothers DO take it upon themselves to "check me" at every opportunity. As your boy did, they come at me with the pained, "Why girl?" And I counter WHY NOT? Ya'll know that saying about the goose and the gander right?
Aw, ya got me! I've been visiting Bougieland for a while without commenting but since you got up in MY life, I have to say - YES! The brothers get SO upset if we "cross the fence" and assume it's because we can't find one of them. Can't I just have found a nice guy who adores who HAPPENS to be white? Yeah it's 2009 but we still have "why she wi' him" side eye going on. I've learned to ignore it.
Having lived in the bastion of interracial relationships (Minneapolis) for 2.5 years, I can tell you that brothers took the interracial dating to another level there. On two occasions that I can clearly recall, a brother let a door slam in my face after holding it open for Becky. I mean I might not be who you'd choose to date but damn do you need to be rude too??
I'm not going to say sisters haven't given men who date 'out' the business because I've seen it happen. However, there are some sisters who could give a flying flip about YOU or your white girl, so you can stop looking over at me with the guilty look on your face. You made the choice, so represent your shit.
I am a Latina and I will tell you that we get it too. When I brought a black guy to a picnic this summer, people went off - especially my latino brothers.
And one more thing, and I need a brother to explain this cause I just don't get it. 8 times out of 10, the white chick is NOT A STUNNA. All bullshit aside, I saw a fine looking brother with a tore up white chick a few weeks back and I for the life of me didn't get it. Of course there is more to love than looks, but seriously...I rarely see a sista with a busted up white dude.
Brothers, explain please?
I'll admit it - I don't like seeing a good-looking sister on the arm of someone who doesn't look like me. But I've never been overtly rude about. I happen to date black women for the most part. The one time I dated a white chick I felt like I had a huge arrow painted on my back and the sisters were lining up aim.
But an ugly sister is okay then?
You took a black guy to a Hispanic Picnic? Brave, chica - very brave. I am half-Latina, half-Black so I get the "not sure what she is" pass. But as a rule, the latino men are less tolerant of the croos-over dating than anyone else I've encountered
OneChele, are you mad that most the guys only speak up when you directly challenge us? :) I will say that I agree with Tiffany in Houston, sometimes it seems as if a brother will put any old thing on his arm to say he's rocking with vanilla. There seems to be some sort of (as Chele would say) bullshiggity notion that Black women are too hard to deal with and so brown, yellow and anything else is supposed to be "easier." I date all but I will probably ultimately marry a sister.
I have 2 cousins married to white women and they give their husbands what for if necessary. I don't buy the white chicks are 'easy' argument like I used to.
I agree with you but a lot of brothers think otherwise. There is also a prevailing thought that it is some sort of status symbol to be able to "pull" fine, non-black women - before you go off - I don't agree, I'm just saying the notion exists.
You going in on the swirl today? WHOA! Listen, your brother is right - the bros ain't down with the sisters right now. A lot of you are overweight, attitudish, got bad credit and carrying around a trunkload of baggage from stuff we ain't had nothing to do with. Plus... I WILL SAY IT - some of ya'll just run your mouths too much and don't know how to give a brother peace or treat 'em right. just sayin'
This might be the stupidest ish I've ever read. You are that ignant bruh OneChele was jumping on. Reading between the lines, none of the fine, educated, intelligent sistahs want you so you mad.
I'm going to have to say to you, Riley what I say to fellas ALL the time, you're going to need to date a better class of woman. If the only ones you meet are loud-talkin' depressed and broke, that may be a reflection on you. As Katt Williams tells the ladies: if all you meet are ain't sh!t men, figure out what about you attracts them and fix that! Flip that and let it marinate
I rock with model quality chicks so not marinating necessary. Don't get angry when I speak the truth based on my experiences.
Arghhhhh! I cant tell you how many times I have that encounter you had. Ironically where I expected the most grief, with CS's colleaugues and friends. I didnt get. At least to my face. It's OK for the Lamar Odom and other to get Kardashians, but how dare you explore the playing field.Please. No wonder that guys wife left his sorry ass.
SpitGame - I don't know how to feel about your statement. You "date all" but will probably marry a sister? Are we to be grateful and wait your attendance on us with baited breath?
I am married to a half-italian, half-asian man and we have encountered more ignorance from HIS friends and family than mine. Yes, some of the brothers got all twisted in the beginning but eventually they came around. Some of his people still call me unpleasant names in different languages they think I don't understand. 2009 girl. If we aren't there, we probably never will be. Some folks just live on hate.
You are having the wrong experiences. Have you gone on Twitter/Facebook and looked at OneChele and the chicks of BougieLand? We da BEST! But you can't have us cuz ya ignant. Oh and I watch the Boondocks, you need to quit that avatar, you are making Riley look bad.
If brothers aren't checking for sisters anymore then please explain the fact that according to the 2008 census approx. 89% of black men who get married marry black women.
Here's the link: http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/cps2008/tabFG4-all.xls
Take a look at rows 50, 60, & 66.
I don't argue with nonsense, I just hit you with the facts. I'll holla.
Most men date what they see. I am around a lot of white and asian women in my corporate environment so that is who I date, it's not a knock on the sisters. But you women can be BRUTAL (a la the Queen La video) when we step out.
i'm going to go ahead and call BULLSHIGGITY on that. Are you really trying to tell me you meet NO sisters in Corporate America? Please don't came at me with the b.s. that Black women don't go to operas, attend the theatre, know how to mingle with all levels of corporate officers because I have lived it and I know COUNTLESS sisters who are cultured, corporate and watching you ignore them and then get angry when they go another direction.
These women approach me, not vice versa. I don't chase women... of any race.
Mama-say, mama-saw, mama-poo-saw (You Wanna Be Startin' Something!)
<span>I just had this conversation with someone last night on Twitter. I'm always amazed that some black men won't date a beautiful thick chick with her stuff together, but will date a size 24 sloppy white chick. o_O</span>
On the other hand, when I see a black woman with a partner of another persuasion, 9 times out of 10 he's FOINE!
I know these men are not saying they do not go left when a sister skips by them? I was in Macy's the other day and the male shoe sales dude literally moved me out of the way to help this white chick and her friends. Finally, when the other saleslady came to me, I had her bring me three pairs of boots and I bought all three pair. His customers left after trying on dozens of shoes, no sale. My boyfriend walked up (he is of Euro descent) and all of sudden the black sales guy said I could've given him the sale. I replied that he could've given me the time of day. God bless the chile that's got his own!
LMAO at the MJ reference.
Come on now ladies. Based on his comment you can tell that he's young. What grown man with the sense God gave a retarded cockroach talks about "model quality chicks"? Real men want a woman capable of looking good AND holding a conversation AND having a shelf life past the age of 25.
I don't know if this fits into the conversation, but I once dated a black woman who bragged to her friend on the telephone that she could look at a black man and tell whether he dated a white woman. I challenged her on that regarding me. She took a look at me and said that I have. She was wrong.
You always delete my comments and I expect you'll delete this one too but race-mixing is what got this country in the trouble it's in right now. Look at the President.
@Reads4pleasure: Good point! LOL!!
Amen.
WOW! That's a new one. Apologies on behalf of the sisterhood, I've never heard of such a thing!
So let me get this straight. We're in an economic crisis right now not because of a bunch of greedy white men, but a bunch of greedy mulattoes? I guess Michael Moore forgot to cover that in Capitalism: A Love Story.
Riddle me this, Batman - what does the President's bi-racial background have to so with anything? Actually, don't tell me. I'm positive I don't want to hear it.
I'm not going to delete you this week. Your ignorance may stand for all to see. You too, Anon - classy. Makes regret allowing Guest/Anon statements again.
Face cracked, and on the ground! Love it!
That was my point with what Man's World said. I don't travel in circles where white women are so I've had no interest in dating them. She based her assumptions on the way I carry myself.
I spend a day or two away from BougieLand and all hell done broke loose! To counter Man's World, when I lived in London I was ONLY approached by Euros, no Black men where checking for me. I was supposed to sit home for two years? Like @OneChele said, you take love where you get love.
I jus so happen to me on a casual business lunch with a male of the vanilla favor and got the stares hard! I could see it in their eyes that not only was this sista wit a white man but she got the nerve to be the rockin locs too! Too much! I wanted to leave my body so bad but it was not the time nor place.
The problem I have is when people make conscious choices based on generalizations and a bad decision THEY made!!! So now every woman or man of a certain group is this wway or that way. Now that is too much for me. If it's love, do love.
ladies, all the anger right here, is why don't nobody wanna date ya. not a good look
I actually don't mind them getting the Kardashians as much as someone who looks like she just knocked over a meth lab.
Michael Moore is a fascist anyway
DEAD @ Kiki!
Girl, I get the lunch look all the time. Most of my co-workers are white so usually it's me and whoever can break away. Brothers who had nothing to say all day are suddenly all -Hey Carey - how you doing? Ninja puh-leeze with that. Can I get a lunch special w/o the side of drama?
Kiki you are wrong for that... and right. LOL
Good question. I stil feel some kinda way about our brothers dating outside of our culture (but im working on that cause thats a wack way of thinking). For the most part I tell myself if they like it I love it, and its none of my concern or business. Honestly I thought it was more the other way around. That black women think its cool to date outuside of our culture cause black men aren't checking for us, but then they see him with someone else and they still get side eyed. Its all good. Im learning not to care either way. I would date someone other than black culture because I dont just want to fit in, I want to be happy.
I'm weeping at some the ignorance in these comments and laughing at some of the hilarity. I THOUGHT the moral of OneChele's story was ALL LOVE. Don't hate on me, I won't hate on you. But clearly from this, people have issues.
WTF - is Leon the only dude on here with sense? Okay wait, one of two others talked sense. I stans for my chocolate bruhs but they can act a damn fool sometimes. I have been in the club with a bunch of bangin' sisters (such as myself) only to get trampled by the brotherhood running up some other flava. Really tho? Like True2Me, I'm trying to be okay with it but it's kinda foul. Let me run in the club with Dakota or Jet-Li, lemme see how that goes down.
One demographic missing here. I'm a white guy (picture was a giveaway) and I date black women because I am attracted to them. It's not an experiment or a phase, I just like what I like. And yeah, I get shit about it ALL the time from my white and black friends. Like somebody said below, I decide not to care.
@ThinkLikeRiley And your double negative is an example of why no one on this site is checking for you.
Chele - lemme get Jake's number - a-ight?
now see Andrea, I'm going to have to fight you for that :)
just a few replies to some comments:
"Don't get angry when I speak the truth based on my experiences"
-thinklikeriley
....um, what u just said above is your opinion, not truth. truth is based on facts. opinions are very subjective, just like experiences are.
"Are we to be grateful and wait your attendance on us with baited breath?"
-onechele
....you read my mind. guess black women can always settle for seconds, thirds, or whatever's left after all others get their share.
"These women approach me, not vice versa."
-man's world
....that explains it. so it's not that there aren't sisters in corp. america, but we're not pursuing you? feel free to explain why that somehow validates you thinking there aren't any sisters for you to date. it's one thing if it's your preference, and another if you don't date them 'cause they aren't running in their pumps after you.
"The problem I have is when people make conscious choices based on generalizations and a bad decision THEY made!!!"
-TiffanyNicole
....cosign
I'm a Londoner in Paris, but I spent a season or two in America. More tolerance over here. There's no squall for who your mate is as long as they are a good person. More class difference than race as a problem.
I think that's a legimate way to feel. I feel like that from time to time as well, after all we are only human. I just wish brothers would be honest. If you want to date non-black because it truly is your preference then do that, but squash all the excuses that you date non-black because black women do XXXXX. Say you date white, asian, indian (red dot or feather) because you do. Period.
How much of my age do I giveaway if I tell you I have listened to this argument for over 20 years! Date who you date and love who you love but but please do so based on personal preference and attraction, not availability and stereotypes that aren't real. A house divided fellow readers... a house divided.
I spent some time in Europe, you may be right. Who is Bent?
A footballer in England who speaks his mind. (you say soccer player) :)
just a few replies to some comments:
"Don't get angry when I speak the truth based on my experiences"
-thinklikeriley
....um, what u just said above is your opinion, not truth. truth is based on facts. opinions are very subjective, just like experiences are.
"Are we to be grateful and wait your attendance on us with baited breath?"
-onechele
....you read my mind. guess black women can always settle for seconds, thirds, or whatever's left after all others get their share.
"These women approach me, not vice versa."
-man's world
....that explains it. so it's not that there aren't sisters in corp. america, but we're not pursuing you? feel free to explain why that somehow validates you thinking there aren't any sisters for you to date. it's one thing if it's your preference, and another if you don't date them 'cause they aren't running in their pumps after you.
"The problem I have is when people make conscious choices based on generalizations and a bad decision THEY made!!!"
-TiffanyNicole
....cosign
I thought that tooo! I thought it was all about all of us getting and GIVING the love! But I guess what had happend was.....
First time here you all are kinda wildin' out for bougey folks! I like, I like! co-signing with BB - lots of haters in the house on both sides of the aisle. And now, thanks to OneChele - that damn Bobby Brown song is stuck in my head!!! I'm an equal opportunity dater myself, life is too short to narrow my lane.
Black woman are all over corporate America and culture.Bullshiggity is right!
Girl! I had to wait to come home to reply to this one because they monitor EVERY thing at work. I'll admit I'm not too evolved, my blood pressure still goes up a little when I see a fine cocoa King with any old kind of thing on his arm. I know it's terrible but it's how I feel. Working on it. My double standard works in reverse because when I see a sister with a blue eyed cutie on her arm, I'm cheering - get it in, girl! Terrible but this is my truth.
So is this Julian guy still looking? Is he handsome? LMAO!
I could give a rats ass who dates whom...but I 've been on the receiving end of comments from black men, when they've seen me out with a white guy/boyfriend...
So pass my # on to Julian..lol
Rick sounds like he had one too many drinks in his system. Personally I didn't know there were brothers out there who are still stuck on that bullshit like that. I mean, it's not like sisters are gettin' much love outside of what they're getting within the race anyway. But you know what would stop this shit if it is indeed an issue? Sisters need to start dating more Asian men. Trust me, a n*gga wouldn't be too quick to talk shit to a sister when she has Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee on her arm. Well, that's unless his name is Jim Kelly and he has an afro in 2009.
So someone at work was reading this post on their blackberry and all hell broke loose in the office when folks started talked about who dated who and who ignored who and who thought they were too good to date who. All I was thinking was - when do I get home to respond!
Like Rippa said (yes he signed in as guest but I recognized the photo), I didn't know people were still stuck on stupid. Um, if things between fungke and Julian don't pan out, I want next. Oh, put me on line for Jake's info too... I wish I were joking :-)
Okay! I see ev'body got an opinion on this one. And Double Standard Week is just beginning.
My dad's Creole and my mom is half Mexican and half Native American.
I seem to date the same type of girl (tall, thin, caramel skin, smart and a bit of a bitch) more than the same race.
One of my exes commented that "We all look the same, regardless of race".
I guess she was right.
What's the difference between a "Ho" and a "Bitch"?
A Ho sleeps with everybody,
A Bicth sleeps with everybody except you.
I think that this is the case with most people who get upset with inter-racial dating.
They are just mad because they are getting no love.
Wow to UBJ - that whole response is crazy, stepping away. OneChele, well congrats on bringing up a thought-provoking topic, some of the responses were in the spirit of your post. I think men inherently have more issues because really, we want a shot at everybody, don't shrink our pond by letting others fish in it :-) But when it comes down to it, I agree that you go where the love is, regardless of the package it's wrapped up in.
well this has is all kinds of crazy. I think that if you have some time, you UBJ, should spend some quality time with a psychiatrist. I think there might be some medication to help you.
Strong work. Date who you like and treat 'em right. it is that simple.
I'm mad I missed this right here, but I'm gonna speak my piece and we're all going to understand in advance that somebody else probably already said it.
I don't know what the problem is. I don't know why black men don't check for you until they see you with a non-black man. I speak from experience. Guys I'd known all my life didn't seem to give 3 sh*ts about my love life until word got out I was dating a white guy. Then suddenly I was getting way more attention of all varieties than I had before.
Do sisters get more heat? Eh -- I think we're comparing apples to oranges. Black women who don't approve of IRs go IN on black men who partake. Meanwhile, black men pull that passive agressive ish that I cannot.stand. It's like you hurt their feelings, like you turned them down for this non-black man. Seriously -- it's as if, for some, they asked you on a date and not only did you say no all loud as hell in a crowded room AND call their mama fat, but you grabbed the FIRST white man you saw and immediately started sexing him. I'm not joking -- that's the experience I've had. Makes no sense to me. Not any.
I'm mad I almost missed this post... I always was an equal opportunity dater and never thought anything of it. You name a country and chances are that I've had at least one date with someone from there. I wanted to end up with a Brother but they were never trying to wife me; the educated, professional, got-his-ish-together dudes never worked out. One fine Brotha that I was dating told me, "You aren't like the other Sistahs out there. You are smart, cultured and versatile. That's why I usually date white chicks!" Needless to say, that was our last date. Now, I am married to a Native American man and it just about makes some peoples' heads explode upon seeing us in public. Even when we were in the Bay Area (his home turf and the last bastion of the Free Love movement), folks like to talk ish on the street. It seems that not only does it make people angry that we are together, but it seems that they are confused and frustrated that they can't tell exactly what race he is. We have gotten some hearty laughs out of the looks we've been given. We. Gotta. Do. Better!
Shout out to the Yay! Thanks for the great comment. Never too late to jump in!
LOL! I'm so glad you took a second to reply - so worth the wait!
I just noticed your pic of the swirl ice cream. You crack me up with the pictures you choose!
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http://clavamox.info/
This is good site to spent time on.
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